民国 / 共和国

Cosol

Member
Italiano - Italia
大家好!
I was wondering which is the difference between 共和国 and 民国 in east Asian languages. I know both translate Republic, but there are only two countries called 民国 (中华民国 and 大韩民国). All other republics are named 共和国. Which is the difference? Can Italian Republic / Repubblica Italiana be translated as *意大利民国?
Cosol
 
  • xiaolijie

    Senior Member
    UK
    English (UK)
    No, the two are not the same. 民国 is actually a shortened form of 人共和. Non-socialist countries normally don't have 人民 in the name of their countries, so you shouldn't use it for Italy.
     

    Cosol

    Member
    Italiano - Italia
    Really? I thought 民國 was used for Republic of China and Republic of Korea which are not socialist countries.
     

    xiaolijie

    Senior Member
    UK
    English (UK)
    Really? I thought 民國 was used for Republic of China and Republic of Korea which are not socialist countries.
    Sorry, I made a mistake about the socialist bit but the from should be correct. It's part of the name of some particular countries, so it can't be arbitrarily attached to all countries.
     

    Ghabi

    Senior Member
    Cantonese
    民國 is just part of a proper name (中華民國* or 大韓民國); it isn't a common noun, so you can't use it to translate "republic" (or anything else).

    *The name 中華民國
    was coined by Sun Yat-sen. This article discusses why he thus named the country.
     

    Daffodil100

    Senior Member
    Chinese
    民国 in Chinese literally bascially means 人民的民主的国家 The democratic country of people.

    Here's the source for the definition from an online Chinese dictionary.
    http://xh.5156edu.com/html5/324921.html

    In 1912, Dr. Sun Yat-sen, who was considered the father of Republic of China, named the country of China as 中华民国.

    Here's an excerpt from Dr. Sun's remarks which explained why he officially named China as 中华民国, but 中华共和国 by himself.

    顾仆尚有一重大意志,欲白于今日者。诸君知中华民国之意义乎?何以不曰中华共和国,而必曰中华民国?此民字之意义,为仆研究十余年之结果而得之者。欧美之共和国,创建远在吾国之前,二十世纪之国民,当含有创制之精神,不当自谓能效法于十八、九世纪成法而引为自....

    In Short, Dr. Sun wanted to underscore of 民 - 民主,人民,三民主义, which distinguished from the power belonged to the royals in Qing Dynasty, and the power belonged to the so-called republic countries such as ancient Greek.

    In 1949, Chinese Communist Party(CCP) the ruling party established the People's Republic of China, which is named officially 中华人民共和国。

    民国 and 共和国 generally are same since both of them are translated as republic in English. We just use them to distinguished different states such as DPRK (N. Korea) and ROK (S. Korea) in Chinese.

    Except for these two terms - 中华民国,大韩民国, republic has been tranlated in 共和国, which has been sanctioned by usage, when it comes to the official name of a state.


    I am afraid that you might not translate 意大利共和国 as 意大利民国, which would sound very weird, unless the government of Italy officially announces the official name of Italy is 意大利民国 in Chinese. There's such a case. Previously we called Seoul, the capital of S. Korea as 汉城,but several years ago, ROK has officially switched the name from 汉城 to 首尔。
     
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    Daffodil100

    Senior Member
    Chinese
    民國 is just part of a proper name (中華民國* or 大韓民國); it isn't a common noun, so you can't use it to translate "republic" (or anything else).

    *The name 中華民國 was coined by Sun Yat-sen. This article discusses why he thus named the country.

    It's a good suggestion to consider 民国 as a proper noun which refers either 中华民国 or 大韩民国。
     
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    indigoduck

    Senior Member
    Canadian English
    民国 and 共和国 generally are same since both of them are translated as republic in English. We just use them to distinguished different states such as DPRK (N. Korea) and ROK (S. Korea) in Chinese.

    There's such a case. Previously we called Seoul, the capital of S. Korea as 汉城,but several years ago, ROK has officially switched the name from 汉城 to 首尔。

    I don't think Italy needs any special translation apart from 意大利 since it is a single country in the eye of the chinese world and doesn't have the complicated political systems that exist in China, Taiwan, HK and elsewhere. The translation of republic shouldn't be taken literally from modern day understood english names for "China", "Taiwan", "Hong Kong".

    Shall i say lost in translation and history ?

    ~~~~~~~~~~

    Since when 中华人民共和国。 = 中华民国 ?

    Unless something has changed, in modern times:

    中华人民共和国。 = People's republic of China (Mainland China)
    中华民国 = Republic of China (Taiwan)

    One is a communist country, the other is not.

    ~~~~~~

    Unless i'm mistaken, unlike Pyongyang and Pusan and many other cities in Korea that have a chinese character equivalent, Seoul was always called Seoul in Korea and there never was any chinese character to represent the name "Seoul".

    I think the difference in usage of between 汉城 and 首尔。 is purely a Chinese made-up one.

    Taiwan/Hong Kong (not sure about Singapore) called it 汉城.
    Mainland china called it 首尔。.
     

    Daffodil100

    Senior Member
    Chinese
    I don't think Italy needs any special translation apart from 意大利 since it is a single country in the eye of the chinese world and doesn't have the complicated political systems that exist in China, Taiwan, HK and elsewhere. The translation of republic shouldn't be taken literally from modern day understood english names for "China", "Taiwan", "Hong Kong".

    1. The official name of Italy in Mandarin.

    Italy is short for its official name Repubblica Italiana. Its official name in Mandarin is 意大利共和国. 意大利 is short for 意大利共和国.

    It's similiar to 法国, etc. I don't see any reason to miss "republic" out of their offical name in the translations in the official occasions.

    The OP was asking whether or not in Mandarin he/she could translate "Repubblica Italiana" as 意大利民国. Since Republic of Korea, 民国 logically stands for republic in Mandarin. The OP was not clear about the difference between 民国 and 共和国。

    2.

    Since when 中华人民共和国。 = 中华民国 ?
    Unless something has changed, in modern times:
    中华人民共和国。 = People's republic of China (Mainland China)
    中华民国 = Republic of China (Taiwan)
    One is a communist country, the other is not.

    (1) Since when I say 中华人民共和国 =中华民国?

    But I can tell you since 1971 中华人民共和国 has replaced 中华民国 to take seat in all UN organs to stand for China which previously were hold by 中华民国。

    Here's the source from the Wikipedia.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_and_the_United_Nations

    (2) 中华人民共和国 = People's repulic of China including Hong Hong S. A. R, Macao, S. A. R, etc.

    People's republic of China =/=Mainland China)


    (3) 中华民国 =/= 台湾 (Since when Taiwan has declared its independence?) Do you know when 中华民国 was founded? Do you know where 中华民国 was founded? Do you know who was the father of 中华民国?Do you know Madam Song Qingling, the widowess of Dr. Sun, who is recognised as the father of 中华民国 both in Taiwan and the mainland, was a vice chairwoman in 中华人民共和国?

    At least more than 140 sovereign nations in the world including Canada government and the UN admit one China only, and doesn't admit 中华民国 de jure. (I don't care that you personally would like to deny Canada government's recognition about this arbitrarily.)

    (4) China is not a communist country. China never claims herself is a communist country, but socialist country. Ruling under a communist party doesn't equal it is a communist country. Please define communism with a reliable source. And it is not a de facto communist country.

    Communist party is legitimate in the US. Theoretically their party members have a chance to win the presidency election according to US Constitution. Don't tell me the US will become a communist country if their candidate wins the election.

    3. Chinese name of Seoul

    Unless i'm mistaken, unlike Pyongyang and Pusan and many other cities in Korea that have a chinese character equivalent, Seoul was always called Seoul in Korea and there never was any chinese character to represent the name "Seoul".

    I think the difference in usage of between 汉城 and 首尔。 is purely a Chinese made-up one.


    I am sure that Hong Kong S. A. R officially adopts 首尔 when it refers to the capital of ROK since it is subject to P. R. China. You can call up the local consular of Korea to verify it. Tel (852)2529-4141 Fax(852)2861-3699

    ROK has officially changed the Chinese translation of Seoul from 汉城 to 首尔。

    2005年1月19日,時任市長的李明博正式宣布서울的中文譯名改為首爾並通知中國政府,漢字文化圈普遍認為此舉主要為了消除中國文化對朝鮮歷史的影響,有助於強化朝鮮族作為一個獨立民族的函意
    Source: http://zh.wikipedia.org/zh-tw/首爾


    As to Taiwan, it is de facto not under the governing of Beijing. I am sure Taipei officially follows Korea's request about the name of Seoul in Chinese.

    Some folks are uninformed, so they continue calling it 汉城, which is an obsolete word.

    Except for Taiwan and Hong Kong, in Singapore_based Chinese media outlets aslo use 首尔。

    P. S. I wound't like to furthur debate the Taiwan issue since it is highly politcially charged and sensitive, and it is not pertinent to the OP's question. If you are still interested in, you can PM me, or start a thread in which you think it is appropriate.
     
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