没门(儿)

Discussion in '中文+方言 (Chinese)' started by April fool, Apr 9, 2016.

  1. April fool Banned

    Punjabi - West Punjab
    If I want to say "No way" should I say 没门儿 or 没门?
    Are both equally correct in 普通话? Does one sound more formal than the other?
     
  2. Skatinginbc

    Skatinginbc Senior Member

    Canada
    Mandarin 國語
    I have a strong tendency to add an 儿 here so much so that I think 儿 is obligatory because (1) 没门儿 "no way, absolutely not, not a chance" and 没门 "no door" do not mean the same, (2) it is a dialectal expression and that dialectal flavor shall be kept, and (3) even those who are not used to r-coloring (like Taiwanese people) tend to show a vowel length contrast in 门 vs. 门(儿) (e.g., 门都沒有 "not even have a door" with a regular 门 vs. 门都沒有 "not even have a chance" with a slightly prolonged 门), which suggests the existence of an underlying 儿.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2016
  3. hxkart Member

    China
    Mandarin - 中文
    没门equals没门儿
    儿is considered as a deletable word in many cases.

    Both of them are informal way.
    For formal way, you should say 不可能 which intonation is relatively stronger.
     
  4. SuperXW

    SuperXW Senior Member

    儿 here only marks the r-coloring that added to 门, which is often omitted in writing, and will not change the meaning of the word.
    Phonetically, whoever uses this dialectical word 没门儿 would almost always pronounce the r-coloring, or the 儿 sound.

    One more thing you need to be careful is that 没门儿 is not always equal to "no way".
    No way "Not a chance!" =没门儿
    No way "Impossible! I can't believe it!" ≠没门儿
     
  5. April fool Banned

    Punjabi - West Punjab
    So you're saying that even those who write 没门 (instead of 没门儿) would pronounce it with r-coloring? In other words, NOBODY pronounces it without r-coloring?
     
  6. hxkart Member

    China
    Mandarin - 中文
    No, he doesn't mean that, you can choose to pronounce it when you are doing oral speaking.when you want to say没门just say 没门,when you want to say没门儿just say it.In China, when we are speaking, as fas as I am concerned,儿 can relieve the circumstances, make it not so serious,especially he or she is your friend,没门儿means no way but can tell your friend some feelings, like I am not angry.
    没门 means no way also means I you are serious, you are certain that you won't agree.
    Sth like that

    but in writing,-儿 is actually informal.and in writing, we won't use 没门 anymore, itself is informal.
     
  7. SuperXW

    SuperXW Senior Member

    That's basically what I said and meant. "Phonetically, whoever uses this dialectical word 没门儿 would almost always pronounce the r-coloring, or the 儿 sound."
    I can't ensure "NOBODY", so I used "almost".
    And I definitely don't have hxkart's experience...
     
  8. April fool Banned

    Punjabi - West Punjab
    Interesting! One last question: do people usually write it with the 儿?
     
  9. fyl Senior Member

    Mandarin Chinese
    Either way is OK.
    Personally I would write fewer 儿's, and pronounce more 儿化's than what's written down.
    And I agree with Skatinginbc. 没门(with 儿化) and 没门(without 儿化) mean two different things: "no way" (a metaphor) and "no door" (the physical object "door").
     
  10. Skatinginbc

    Skatinginbc Senior Member

    Canada
    Mandarin 國語
    As I have stated, even if it is unnatural for some people to pronounce the final /r/, most of them will still slightly prolong the syllable length to fill the blank for /r/ in this case. It is non-standard or even incorrect in my mind if one does not pronounce either /-r/ or a lengthened vowel.
     
  11. retrogradedwithwind Senior Member

    Chinese
    I agree with Skating too.

    As for many other words, maybe either with or without r-coloring they means the same, but 没门儿 is absolutely not one of them.
     

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