特殊な「た」の用法 Special usage of ta

cheshire

Senior Member
Japanese
評価:君に会えてよかっ「」。I'm glad to be able to see you.
命令:さあ、行っ「た」、行っ「」。Get going. Go.
確認・想起:君は田中君だっ「」ね。You are Mr Tanaka, aren't you?
これらの「た」はすべて「現在」の用法です。この「た」の使い方は、日本語学習者にとって理解が難しくはないのでしょうか?もし自然に理解できるのなら、どういった風に理解しましたか?多言語に類例があるからでしょうか?もし類例があれば紹介してください。

All た used above are used for present situation. Didn't you find the usage difficult to grasp? If it was natural for you, how was it reasonable to you? Are there any other examples in lanugages other than Japanese? If so, please show us.
 
  • Captain Haddock

    Senior Member
    Canada, English
    #1 never seemed that strange to me, it's like a state that has resulted from the action described before よかった.

    #2: I have never seen or heard this use of 行った.

    #3 is something that was already true, so it sort of makes sense.

    There are tricky instances in English where the past tense is used, and in which non-natives tend to err and use the present. I can't think of one off-hand, though.
     

    almostfreebird

    Senior Member
    Born and raised in Japón, soy japonés
    I can think of one. The verb "forget". At least Japanese people tend to say "I forgot.." when it should be "I forget..".
     

    samanthalee

    Senior Member
    Mandarin, English - [Singapore]
    #1 and #2 are very similar to Mandarin. [#1: よかった = 太好][#2 行った、行っ= 走了,走]

    As the good Captain has observed, #3 is something that is true and was true, so it makes sense too.:)
     

    cheshire

    Senior Member
    Japanese
    #1 and #2 are very similar to Mandarin. [#1: よかった = 太好][#2 行った、行っ= 走了,走]That's a striking similarity! Japanese usage must have come from Chinese!

    English has the usage similar to #3, doesn't it? No one interprete the following sentence as meaning "Your name is no longer James Bond."

    Was your name James Bond?​
     

    uchi.m

    Banned
    Brazil, Portuguese
    #1: this one I had to memorize. It has nothing to do with the Portuguese translation.

    #2: this usage is new to me!

    #3: this one is similar to Portuguese regarding the verb tense. One possible Portuguese version would employ the past imperfect tense.
     

    cheshire

    Senior Member
    Japanese
    Not many people use #2; if at all, it's rare. That's why you haven't learned it. Could you tell me what that verb form is?
    O seu nome ( ) Pedro?
     

    cheshire

    Senior Member
    Japanese
    I think it's similar to English.

    (1) Finish your homework already!
    (2) It's time you went to bed.

    I think it's a reflection of the speaker's hope that something should have been done already.
    By saying 行った、行った, the speaker wishes 行く had been already done at the time of speaking.
     

    Flaminius

    hedomodo
    日本語 / japāniski / יפנית
    It occurs to me that #2 might be short for 行った方がいい, but that's just my non-native's estimation. Again, it's something I've never heard in real life.
    I think the development of「行った、行った」 is well-attested in an already-extinct-for-decades 「行ったり、行ったり」. The level of formality is also very different for 「行った、行った」 and 「行った方がいい」. The former is a very blunt, while the latter is a soft, jussive.
     
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