穿着

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Arabus

Senior Member
Arabic-Aleppo
Hello,

I have a grammar source that says the following:

Change-of-state verbs have no duration so they cannot be suffixed with the duration suffix 着 zhe and they cannot occur in other patterns that focus on the duration of an event.
The book lists the verb 穿 chuān among the "change-of-state" verbs.

But in another place I saw the following sentence:

zhe4 ge nu3 ren2 chuan1 zhe xie2 zi

So the suffix zhe was added to chuān.

What is correct?
 
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  • sesame_fr

    Senior Member
    chinese
    of course we can say 穿着……
    for example:
    她穿着一双皮鞋。She wears a pair of leather shoes.
    她在穿皮鞋。She is putting on her shoes.
    她对孩子说:“穿上衣服。” She said to the child:"Put on your clothes."
    她喜欢穿黑色衣服。She likes to wear in black.
     

    南島君

    Senior Member
    Mandarin
    Hi Arabus,

    Hello,

    I have a grammar source that says the following:

    Change-of-state verbs have no duration so they cannot be suffixed with the duration suffix 着 zhe and they cannot occur in other patterns that focus on the duration of an event.
    The book lists the verb 穿 chuān among the "change-of-state" verbs.

    But in another place I saw the following sentence:

    zhe4 ge nu3 ren2 chuan1 zhe xie2 zi

    So the suffix zhe was add to chuān.

    What is correct?
    I must say the statement held by your grammar book is somewhat confusing if not misleading.

    To my understanding, 着in mandarin as a Continuous Aspect (持续体) marker has two slightly different usage, one is which I would still call as Continuous, and the other Stative (存续体), in which they both share the semantic of non-evolving ongoing situation, which differs from Progressive Aspect 在/正在 that is evolving ongoing situation, with the previous maintain position meaning and the latter maintaining result (of activity) meaning.

    e.g. 1. 持续体
       1.1他坐着。 He is sitting. / *He is sitting down.
       1.2床上躺着一个病人。 A patient is lying on the bed. / *A patient is lying down to the bed.
       1.3他提着一个包。 He is holding a bag. / *He is holding up a bag.
         
       2. 存续体
       2.1 他戴着一顶帽。 He is wearing a hat. / *He is wearing on a hat.
       2.2 碗里盛着饭。 Literally: The rice is filling [or is containing] in the bowl. / *The rice is being filling up into the bowl.
       2.3墙上挂着一幅画。 A drawing is hanging on the wall / *A drawing is being hanging up onto the wall.

    While it is said that the first usage of 着 of mandarin Chinese is canonical in speaking of the (general) Continuous Aspect marker in languages around the world, yet some languages may not have the Stative usage of the same marker (劉丹青 2008:467), it is not surprise to expect such a confusion for a mandarin learning foreigner.

    As for sesame_fr,
    她穿着一双皮鞋。She wears a pair of leather shoes. Continuous [stative]
    她在穿皮鞋。She is putting on her shoes. Progressive
    她对孩子说:“穿上衣服。” She said to the child:"Put on your clothes." Neutral
    她喜欢穿黑色衣服。She likes to wear in black. Neutral
    Sorry but this is confusing. These examples of yours are fundamentally of different Aspect.

    lc
     
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    xiaolijie

    Senior Member
    UK
    English (UK)
    Arabus said:
    I have a grammar source that says the following:

    Change-of-state verbs have no duration so they cannot be suffixed with the duration suffix 着 zhe and they cannot occur in other patterns that focus on the duration of an event.
    The book lists the verb 穿 chuān among the "change-of-state" verbs.
    In order for us to know precisely what the statement is meant to say, can you give us some other verbs that the book listed as "change-of-state" verbs?
     

    Arabus

    Senior Member
    Arabic-Aleppo
    zuò to sit (a change from standing to sitting) zhàn to stand (a change from sitting to standing) fàng to put/place (a change of location) guà to hang (a change of location) líkāi to depart (a change of location) chuān to put on (clothing – on the torso and legs) dài to put on (clothing – on the head, neck, and hands) bìng to become sick (a change of health) dào to arrive (a change of location from ‘not here’ to ‘here’) qù to go (a change of location from ‘here’ to ‘not here)
     

    xiaolijie

    Senior Member
    UK
    English (UK)
    Thanks for the list, Arabus.

    Well, as I thought, the author is correct in listing 穿 chuān among the "change-of-state" verbs, and you should not use 着1 with these verbs. The 着 that you see in 穿着 is in fact 着2, a different 着!

    I think the author may have explained the difference somewhere in the book but let me try with a simple version:

    1. zuò, zhàn, chuān, etc. are "change-of-state" verbs, the action tends to occur so fast that it's usually (note the word usually) doesn't need 着1 to indicate that the action is happening (continuous/ progressive actions, like: She is singing).

    2. However, once these actions have occured, new states should result from the actions (The door is open (state), as opposed to: He's opening the door for her (progressive action)). To indicate the resulted states, you use 着2. The problem we have got is, unfortuntate, the two different functions are both represented by !

    With this explanation, do read again the necessary bits in your book, it should now be easier to understand than before. Read also 南島君's post above carefully, as it is quite simlilar to what I've just said.
     
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    Arabus

    Senior Member
    Arabic-Aleppo
    Thank you 南島君.

    As far as I understand your post, the three aspects you described (which you called the continuous, stative, and progressive) are all contained within the English progressive/continuous aspect expressed by the ending -ing. So what I understand from your post is that 着 = -ing and that the quote from my book is incorrect, as 着 can be suffixed to "change-of-state" verbs to indicate a continious state rater than a continuous action.

    Thanks.
     

    audiencecy

    New Member
    Chinese
    他穿衣服。

    in China, we almost do not say in this way. Although in grammar it is not wrong, but it is misleading. the listener would have some strange feeling and he would not understand its exact meaning the man is involved in the action of puting on his clothes or he has some clothes on his body.
    他穿衣服呢。

    this could be use to express that a man is puting on his clothes.
    他正在穿衣服。

    this sentence has the same meaning as "他穿衣服呢 ".
    他穿着衣服。
    this means he has some clothes on his body.
     
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