违法事实

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song1949

Member
Chinese
Could I translate "违法事实" into "illegal facts"? We can say "illegal action", but I don't know whether we can say "illegal facts", or we must say "fact of violation of law"
 
  • Skatinginbc

    Senior Member
    Mandarin 國語
    Please provide the context where you would use that phrase. Without it, I would assume 事实 in 违法事实 to be a legal term (i.e., a juridical fact) referring to an event or act. In other words, 违法事实 "unlawful fact" = unlawful act/event.
     
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    song1949

    Member
    Chinese
    The context is that a company violates criminal laws by selling expired food, so selling expired food is a fact of violation of law. I searched Google, I didn't find any "illegal fact", but I found many "illegal action". So I wonder whether "illegal fact" is a correct term.
     

    Skatinginbc

    Senior Member
    Mandarin 國語
    selling expired food is a fact of violation of law
    Selling expired food is a violation of the law. Selling expired food is, in fact, a violation of the law.
    I wonder whether "illegal fact" is a correct term.
    It may be correct in the right context. Without a context, people wouldn't know what an "illegal fact" is supposed to mean. BTW, we still don't have the context (上下文) where 违法事实 is used. If your question is only about English and has nothing to do with Chinese, then you'll be better served by going to the English-Only forum.
     

    song1949

    Member
    Chinese
    上下文就是:“目前政府部门正在开展调查,在调查结果出来之前,我公司不会承认任何违法事实”。
    我觉得“违法事实”在中文中只能有一种理解,就是一个公司做了一些事情,而这些事情是违法的,所以说这些事情就是违法事实。
     

    SuperXW

    Senior Member
    上下文就是:“目前政府部门正在开展调查,在调查结果出来之前,我公司不会承认任何违法事实”。
    我觉得“违法事实”在中文中只能有一种理解,就是一个公司做了一些事情,而这些事情是违法的,所以说这些事情就是违法事实。
    作为法律的门外汉,我感觉这句本身就有问题:既然我们否认,怎么还能叫“事实”?我会说“我公司不会承认任何违法指控”。
    不知道法律专业术语是怎么说的。
     

    Skatinginbc

    Senior Member
    Mandarin 國語
    目前政府部门正在开展调查,在调查结果出来之前,我公司不会承认任何违法事实
    Presently the government agency is still conducting its investigation. Before the investigation reaches a conclusion, our company will not admit to any violation of the law.
    我感觉这句本身就有问题:既然我们否认,怎么还能叫“事实”?我会说“我公司不会承认任何违法指控”。
    I agree. A spokesperson of a company speaking from the first-person perspective (i.e., 我公司) is expected to avoid any suggestion that links 违法 with 事实.
     
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    song1949

    Member
    Chinese
    中文真实奇妙无穷,“违法指控”和“违法事实”是一类,而“违法行为”和“违法所得”是另一类。为什么这么说呢,因为“违法行为”是说这个行为是违法的,“违法所得”是说这个收入是违法的,所以可以用illegal action 和illegal income,但违法指控并不是说指控是违法的,而是说关于违法行为的指控,所以不能说illegal charge,我想“违法事实”也是属于这一类的,是说关于违法行为的事实,而不是这个事实是违法的。
     

    retrogradedwithwind

    Senior Member
    Chinese
    任何歧义在正式写作中都是要严格避免的。

    在我理解中,违法事实的意思就是 违反法律的事实。
    违法指控也是指违法的指控。

    如你我理解不一致,那么这就是歧义,必须避免。

    “目前政府部门正在开展调查,在调查结果出来之前,我公司不会承认任何违法事实”

    这是谁写的稿子?!!!!
    这句话听着,怎么像 我公司确实违法了,但是只要没证据,我就不承认(,有证据我才承认)。

    我建议重新组织汉语句子。
     

    Skatinginbc

    Senior Member
    Mandarin 國語
    “违法事实”也是属于这一类的,是说关于违法行为的事实
    Legally speaking, 事实 does not mean 事情的真實情形. It could mean "a matter subject to investigation by the authority to establish whether a crime has been perpetrated", for instance, 中国证监会《结案通知书》: 经审理,你公司涉案违法事实不成立,我会决定本案结案 (http://szsb.sznews.com/html/2015-02/09/content_3146024.htm). Note that it is 你公司, not 我公司. 违法事实 refers to allegations of law violation.
     
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    song1949

    Member
    Chinese
    任何歧义在正式写作中都是要严格避免的。

    在我理解中,违法事实的意思就是 违反法律的事实。
    违法指控也是指违法的指控。

    如你我理解不一致,那么这就是歧义,必须避免。

    “目前政府部门正在开展调查,在调查结果出来之前,我公司不会承认任何违法事实”

    这是谁写的稿子?!!!!
    这句话听着,怎么像 我公司确实违法了,但是只要没证据,我就不承认(,有证据我才承认)。

    我建议重新组织汉语句子。
    我只是举个例子,原句是“我公司不会承认所谓的违法事实”,我把“所谓”漏掉了,但意思大家应该都明白。
     

    stephenlearner

    Senior Member
    Chinese
    如果不较真的话,这句话大家都理解。粗略的意思,甚至模棱两可的意思,在生活中是被容许的。

    但是如果是公文或是正式文件,还是要认真。

    我觉得,承认,是本句的钥词,承认就表示之前有人指控。所以"违法指控“是比较好的。如果还没有进入司法程序,说”违法事实"应该是不妥的。司法调查结束之后,“违法事实”一词则是合理的。

    当然,正如8楼说的,违法事实和违法指控,虽然外在结构一样,但是内在关系不同。

    其实,违法事实,仔细想想有些怪,看看这些句子:
    这个事实是违法的
    这个事实是合法的
    这个行为是违法的
    这个行为是违法的。

    行为是违法的,完全能接受;但事实是违法的,觉得不太对。
     

    Skatinginbc

    Senior Member
    Mandarin 國語
    违法(adj)行为(N) = 违法的行为 = 违犯法规的行为 "act that violates the law" = 非法行為 "illegal act"
    其违法的事实 = 其违犯法规的这个事实 "the fact that someone violates the law" (事实 = 实有的事)

    工作(N)分析(N) "job analysis"
    結婚(N)證書(N) "marriage certificate"
    违法(N)事实(N) = 违法事迹 "facts of law violations" (事实 = 事迹 = 做过的事, 事情的经过)
    ==> 违法(N)事实(N) vs. 违法(adj)行为(N)
    违法(N)指控(N) "accusations of law violations" vs. 非法(adj)指控(N) "false accusations, accusations that are illegal".
     
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