連用形: Verb and Noun Usages

kaito

Senior Member
German
I still believe 好きだ to be a verb.

Maybe this already goes off topic but am I right to say the same applies to 断り ?
Hmm then again it probably applies to every verb in the 連用形...

Let me ask it this way, 語りが聞けない, do you think 語り is more verb like or noun like ?
I'm not asking for grammatical rules, just your feeling towards the word.
 
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  • Ocham

    Senior Member
    Japanese
    Hi, Kaito

    I'm terribly sorry I can't get a clear picture of what you're trying to say.
    I don't see any relation between 好きだ and 断り. And we have no expression
    like 語りが聞けない。It doesn't make any sense. All I can tell
    is 語り is 100% a noun, at the same time 100% a variety of a verb 語る
    simply depending on its surroundings.

    For instance:
    語り in 物語(り)(monogatari=story, literally: story telling), it's a noun.
    語り in ○○について語ります(I'm going to talk about ...), it's 連用形 of 語る.
     

    kaito

    Senior Member
    German
    I don't see any relation between 好きだ and 断り.
    The relation that I saw is that it is also a noun (or verb in the 連用形) which is sometimes used like a normal verb.

    And we have no expression
    like 語りが聞けない。It doesn't make any sense. All I can tell
    is 語り is 100% a noun, at the same time 100% a variety of a verb 語る
    simply depending on its surroundings.

    I was just trying to think of a random example where the 連用形 verb is used like a noun and hoping to find out whether the 連用形 always "feels" like a verb, even when it's clearly used as a noun in grammatical terms.

    I'm sorry I can't exactly describe what I mean by "feeling like a verb", but basically take the 好き example, it's the 連用形 of 好く so it's technically a noun and it's used like a noun (most of the time) in grammatical terms but it still it "feels like" a verb.
     

    Flaminius

    hedomodo
    日本語 / japāniski / יפנית
    Adverbial forms are a rich source of verb-derived nouns. Some like 語り and 断り are established nouns while others like 食べ and 飲み are slang if used as full-fledged nouns (I remember hearing them used by students in sense of going for dinner and for a drink).

    Verb-derived nouns do not feel like a verb at all. Some have different accents from that of the adverbial forms (e.g., kotowári adverbial vs. kotowarí derived noun). Except for the "-ni iku" construction, adverbials cannot take postpositions while derived nouns needs -no in order for nouns and clauses to modify them (古老語り, 判決言い渡し, 読者へ断り).
     

    lammn

    Senior Member
    Chinese - Cantonese
    All I can tell is 語り is 100% a noun, at the same time 100% a variety of a verb 語る simply depending on its surroundings.

    Kind of agree.

    In this regard, I think 連用形 in Japanese looks very similar to the gerunds in English. Sometimes it looks like a noun, and sometimes it looks like a verb.
     

    Ocham

    Senior Member
    Japanese
    When we use 連用形 as a noun in our daily conversation or writings,
    we sometimes feel as if we were keeping one leg in verb and another
    in noun.

    For example, we have a noun 受け取り(uketori) which means a receipt.
    At the same time, 受け取り is a 連用形 form of 受け取る(uketoru) which
    means receive (literally means "receive and take"). Especially when
    we say 受け取りをもらう(literally means "to get a receit), it's really funny,
    isn't it? The sentence is made up of three verbal variations, get,
    receive and take.
     
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