過ぎた存在ですわよ

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thetazuo

Senior Member
Chinese - China
「それに、十香さんをさらった魔術師をご存じでして?あれは厄介な女ですわ。人間が相手をするには過ぎた存在ですわよ

Hi. Is the underlined sentence an omitted version of あの厄介な女は人間が彼女の相手をするには過ぎた存在です (She is too strong for human beings to be her opponent)?
Or, there is no such word as 強 that is omitted. The には過ぎた is used in the same way as in 彼女は君には過ぎた女房だ? (It’s just the word preceding には過ぎた is a verb in the topic sentence instead of a pronoun )

Thank you.
 
  • Techref

    Senior Member
    Chinese - Mandarin
    You have a nice point,
    but I understood it differently

    Question: それに、十香さんをさらった魔術師をご存じでして?
    Reply: あれは厄介な女ですわ
    Remark: 人間が相手をするには過ぎた存在ですわよ (Humans, to deal with is existing excessively )


    ... maybe
     
    Last edited:

    Flaminius

    coclea mod
    日本語 / japāniski / יפנית
    In 過ぎた存在, 過ぎた cannot be understood as a kind of short-hand for 強過ぎた存在. The construction "<adjectival stem> + sugiru" does not conjugate when used for modifying a noun. True, you can use it to conclude a sentence in the pas tense. E.g., 三回戦で負けちゃったよ。対戦相手が強すぎた。 But you cannot use the past tense like 強すぎた存在. For attributive use, you always need the non-past すぎる, as in 強すぎる.

    I think no other understanding is possible than 過ぎた存在 being modeled on 過ぎた女房, but 過ぎた isn't a very productive word. In other words, 過ぎた modifying anything other than 女房 can be taken as an innovation, good or bad.

    The niwa-marked (don't ask me why it's not -ni) complement of すぎた can be a simple noun as in 君にはすぎた女房 or a complicated gerund as in 人間が相手をするには過ぎた存在. Either way, the modified noun (e.g., 女房, or 存在) is in a level somewhere far beyond the complement.
     

    thetazuo

    Senior Member
    Chinese - China
    Thank you. So can I expand the original sentence as あの厄介な女は人間が彼女の相手をするには過ぎた存在です without changing the meaning?
     

    Sixteenfu

    New Member
    Chinese
    Just to be extra, 厄介is "tricky, troublesome, difficult" rather than "strong". The witch can simply have a terrible temper or is good at cursing (or whatever) and she is just hard to handle.

    I feel "過ぎた" on its own as an adjective means "exceeding (someone's) capacity"
    私には過ぎた女房-She is a wife more than I deserve.

    thetazuo's sentence was clearly spoken by a woman (she's usingお嬢様言葉). With nuance added, it's more like:
    "By the way, do you know the witch who kidnapped 十香? That's a very difficult woman. She is too much for humans to deal with."
     
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