~てきました: past simple or present perfect?

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ハマー

New Member
Italian
Hi everyone,
I have to translate the following sentence into English.

お昼ごはんは、駅前で食べてきました。

Unfortunately, I cannot give you any context as this is simply an illustrative sentence in a grammatical explanation of "~ていく/~てくる".
I am uncertain as to whether I should translate this as "I had lunch near the station (on the way here)" or "I have had lunch near the station (on the way here)".
I think "I have had lunch" would suggest the idea that the fact is having some influence on the present ("I have already had lunch at the station, so I don't need to eat here")?
Correct me if I'm wrong, and I would be grateful for any suggestions.
 
  • fedetranslator

    Member
    Italian
    I study Japanese at university, and dekimashita is a past simple, it means that he/she has ALREADY ate.

    I hope, someone answers this question so that you can be sure.
     

    almostfreebird

    Senior Member
    Born and raised in Japón, soy japonés
    お昼ごはんは、駅前で食べました。--->I had lunch near the station.
    お昼ごはんは、駅前で食べてきました。--->I had lunch near the station and I am here now.

    "食べました" means the action that you ate.
    "食べてきました" implies the movement or transfer from where you ate to where you are now.

    "駅前で" literally means "in front of the station".
     

    ハマー

    New Member
    Italian
    お昼ごはんは、駅前で食べました。--->I had lunch near the station.
    お昼ごはんは、駅前で食べてきました。--->I had lunch near the station and I am here now.

    "食べました" means the action that you ate.
    "食べてきました" implies the movement or transfer from where you ate to where you are now.

    "駅前で" literally means "in front of the station".
    Thank you! My question, however, pertained to the English tense.
     

    almostfreebird

    Senior Member
    Born and raised in Japón, soy japonés
    quote:I think "I have had lunch" would suggest the idea that the fact is having some influence on the present ("I have already had lunch at the station, so I don't need to eat here")?
    Correct me if I'm wrong, and I would be grateful for any suggestions. unquote

    I absolutely agree .

    お昼ごはんは、駅前で食べました。--->I had lunch near the station.
    お昼ごはんは、駅前で食べてきました。--->I have had lunch near the station and I am here now.--->"I have had lunch near the station (on the way here)
     
    Last edited:

    Strutter

    Senior Member
    Japanese.
    Hi.:)

    I study Japanese at university, and dekimashita is a past simple, it means that he/she has ALREADY ate.

    I hope, someone answers this question so that you can be sure.
    I think he showed good point.

    Both of them are possible translations.

    I have already had lunch.
    I already had lunch.

    Anyway, ALREADY.(So, I'm not hungry now)

    EDIT:

    新しい仕事を見つけてきました。
    I've already found new job. (or I've just found new job.)

    昔の友達に会ってきました。
    I just met my old friend. (I already met my friend.)

    Finally, I think ~きました like already/just + past simple/present perfect.
     
    Last edited:

    Wishfull

    Senior Member
    Japanese
    Hi.

    I've (already) finished eating lunch at a restaurant near the station (and then I am here now in a state of full-stomach/not-being-hungry) .

    I think present perfect might be better because I think of the situation in which this expression would be used.
    And I think if I use "past tense", then I have to add "just now" or something like that, which indicates that the past is not so remote past but recent past.
    "Already" is also works well, to indicate that it is probably not remote past, but probably recent past.
    But I wonder, the adverb;"already" should not be used with simple past tense. I think it should be used with perfect tense.

    BECAUSE:
    I think this expression usually used for negative answer to the question;
    "Shall we go to McDonald's for lunch?"
    "How about eating lunch at Tanaka's restaurant?"

    Then the answer would be;
    No. I've had already.
    OR
    No. I ate lunch just now.

    "Yes. I ate lunch (three hours ago), but I'm hungry too." is definitely not the case with the original Japanese sentence.
     
    Last edited:

    Flaminius

    coclea mod
    日本語 / japāniski / יפנית
    V-てきた is more the present perfect than the simple past if framed in the tense/aspect paradigm of European languages.

    What this analogy may not be good at illustrating is that under this expression the speaker moved to the place of locution (here and now) after performing the action V. For contrastive verification, you cannot use this expression if you did not move away from the place where you had done V. For instance, you have a meeting with your English tutor at a café. He has had a few lessons before your appointment at 1:00. If you ask if he has eaten already and his answer is affirmative, he would say:
    もう食べました。

    Anyway, it is an expression for a "fresh past" that has some bearings to what is happening at the place of locution. :)

    When no physical movement is involved, V-てきた is like the English present perfect progressive.
    E.g., 当協会は市内の公園の維持に努めてきました。
    Our Association has been striving to maintain the parks in the city.

    The Park Association has been maintaining all the parks up till now. It is also implied that they will continue their job well into the future. If -tekita is to be understood as a movement of any kind, then it is a temporal movement from the past to the present; with no goal specified.
     

    lrosa

    Senior Member
    English - Ireland
    お昼ごはんは、駅前で食べてきました。

    I am uncertain as to whether I should translate this as "I had lunch near the station (on the way here)" or "I have had lunch near the station (on the way here)".
    Personally I don't see any great use in trying to compare Japanese grammar with English grammar in this way and deciding whether one grammatical form "equates" to this tense or that tense. I would agree that the Japanese form "ーてきた" can often be translated quite satisfactorily by using the present perfect tense in English, but the problem with this example is that you cannot say "I have had lunch on the way here" in English, because the present perfect tense cannot be used to refer to a specific point in time in the past ("on the way here"). This is a rule specific to English grammar, which is not found in Japanese grammar. Both languages have their own specific idiosyncratic rules, and for this reason I think it's more useful to understand the "ーてきた" form within the context of the Japanese language (i.e. in relation to other similar grammatical forms) rather than with reference to English or any other European language.

    almostfreebird said:
    お昼ごはんは、駅前で食べました。--->I had lunch near the station.
    お昼ごはんは、駅前で食べてきました。--->I had lunch near the station and I am here now.

    "食べました" means the action that you ate.
    "食べてきました" implies the movement or transfer from where you ate to where you are now.
    I thought this explanation of the difference between お昼ごはんは、駅前で食べました and お昼ごはんは、駅前で食べてきました was more useful.
     
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