1980's or 1980s?

[dathrilla]

Hello,

What significance does the apostrophe have? My teacher encircled all the "1***'s" in my paper!

 

[TheAmzngTwinWndr]

You can write it either way.

Personally, I always put the apostraphe.

Maybe your teacher thinks you're trying to make 1980 possessive? But I see you're from NY so he/she should have seen this construction before.

 

[dathrilla]

I'm from New York but I'm currently living in Switzerland and my teacher's British. Therefore, I can understand.

 

[TheAmzngTwinWndr]

Oh I see. Maybe there's a British preference not to put the appostrophe.
Any Brits want to shed some light on the subject?

 

[panjandrum]

In British usage, we do not use an apostrophe in pluralizing dates:
This research was carried out in the 1970s.
American usage, however, does put an apostrophe here:
This research was carried out in the 1970's.

Source

Here's a US source:

It is no longer considered necessary or even correct to create the plural of years or decades or abbreviations with an apostrophe:

• He wrote several novels during the 1930s.

• Source

 

[nzfauna]

You can write it either way.

Personally, I always put the apostraphe.

Maybe your teacher thinks you're trying to make 1980 possessive? But I see you're from NY so he/she should have seen this construction before.

This is incorrect. In this case, 1980s should NEVER have an apostrophe.


The only case where you would use an apostrophe with a year is if it's posessive. E.g. The 1980s' mentality towards AIDS was much different [note placement]. Or, if you're refering to a single year, you could say, 1980's theme song was "All I do is love".

 

[TheAmzngTwinWndr]

This is incorrect. In this case, 1980s should NEVER have an apostrophe.


The only case where you would use an apostrophe with a year is if it's posessive, and even then, the placement would be different. E.g. The 1980s' mentality towards AIDS was much different.

I think its different in America, Britain, and New Zealand. Look at the Panjandrum's source above. I have seen it both ways in the U.S.

 

[L'Homme Inconnu]

nzfauna is right - when saying a date, such as the 1980s, it is incorrect to put an apostrophe.

This is certainly the case in the English English, but whether or not it is so in American (or other forms of) English, I do not know!

 

[anothersmith]

I have seen it both ways in the U.S. My preference is to omit the apostrophe.

 

[panjandrum]

nzfauna is right - when saying a date, such as the 1980s, it is incorrect to put an apostrophe.

This is certainly the case in the English English, but whether or not it is so in American (or other forms of) English, I do not know!

Hello L'Homme, and welcome to WordReference
Incorrect is a strong word, as is never, never mind NEVER.
At least one reputable source, admittedly a UK sourse, says that 1980's is correct in AE, American English.
Those familiar with AE who have contributed to this thread agree.

 

[L'Homme Inconnu]

Hi!

I have checked with the OED online, and it says that it is acceptable to use an apostrophe in AE.

It is, shall we say, 'more acceptable' for it to be written "1980s" in Standard English, according to the OED, although it is common to see it either way.

Nonetheless, a teacher should not say that it is wrong to use it, although it may not be standard (as I was trying to infer from my previous message, although my choice of wording was perhaps a little harsh!)

 

[Matching Mole]

Whether the apostrophe can be justified in grammatical logic depends on what one considers the role of the "s" to be. Is it the years of the decade (genitive) or a plural (the sum of the years in the decade)? I would say this is arguable, so either form may be correct. The only way to decide this is by appeal to authority, and as authorities disagree, the answer is indeterminable.

 

[nzfauna]

I have seen it written both ways in NZ too, but it is viewed as very wrong - much like the proverbial "green grocer's apostrophe" phenomenon. I'm not disagreeing with the apparent fact that 1980's is/was accepted in the US, but I whole-heartedly believe that it is wrong.

Like the Mole, I am trying to think of an argument explaining the role of the apostrophe in this case. However, I can't rightly agree to the "years of the decade" hypothesis. In my opinion, "the 1980s" refers to 1980,1981,1982,1983 ...etc. I.e. the ten years that are labelled with "198_". I don't believe you would refer to "the 1980's years". I just doesn't work. Perhaps you could refer to "the 1980s' years", but that's a stretch".

If the "years of the decade" hyposthise were true, we would have to write [the eighty's], and not [the eighties]. I'm pretty sure [eighties] is standard.

 

[GreenWhiteBlue]

I whole-heartedly believe that people in New Zealand who say that American usage is "wrong" because it is not New Zealand usage are themselves wrong.

Using this logic, spelling "colour" with a "u" is "wrong" because the native English speakers in the country that has the largest population of native English speakers (which is the United States) do not do it that way. Of course, such a decree would be ignorant, baseless, and -- yes -- "wrong."

AE usage formerly required the apostrophe in "the 1980's". The apostrophe is no longer required, but using one is not considered incorrect, but merely uncommon and old-fashioned, rather like the spelling "aeroplane".

 

[nzfauna]

Using examples of orthography to lend weight to a discussion on punctuation is unhelpful.

In a debate, it is normal to present relevant points, and to rebut your opponent's [or is that "opponents/'s/s'] points.

 

[Matching Mole]

If the "years of the decade" hyposthise were true, we would have to write [the eighty's], and not [the eighties]. I'm pretty sure [eighties] is standard.

Point well taken. My own view is that the apostrophe is aberrant, as it should represent an omission, and nothing is apparently omitted here. However, I can't argue with accepted usage, however wrong I may think it is. All I can say is: if it is on the wane, all the better.

 

[Cagey]

Hello,

What significance does the apostrophe have? My teacher encircled all the "1***'s" in my paper!

In AE, it used to be the convention to use appostrophes to form plurals of numbers. My American Heritage Dictionary (1985) explains the rule thus:

[Apostrophe] Indicates the plurals of figures, letters, or words used as such:

4's and 5's / x's, y's, and z's/ in the 1700's/ "an article with too many also's"​

Sometime between 1985 and now, the convention has changed, or is in the process of change. The Chicago Manual of Style (1993), for instance, no longer uses the apostrophe to mark the plural of numbers (so: 1700s, the '90s). Similarly, when words and letters are italicized, the plurals do not take an apostrophe. (If they are not italicized, they will take the apostrophe to form the plural.)

I suspect that you were taught the older convention and were correctly following it, but fashions change in punctuation like everything else. In this case, the ease of italicizing now that we write on computers probably has something to do with it.

 

[roblynne]

I think its different in America, Britain, and New Zealand. Look at the Panjandrum's source above. I have seen it both ways in the U.S.

Just because we've seen something doesn't mean it's correct, though, does it? It's to be expected that you'll find people writing things in all different kinds of wrong ways. It doesn't make them right in any way.
The basic rules of English should hold across the English-speaking (and writing) world. Sometimes, but much more rarely, different countries DO have different rules. For example, the US writes 'color' while we in Australia write 'colour'.
But apostrophes are just a catastrophic field for potential wrongness. You'll see all sorts of wrong stuff out there.
The English Oxford word blog and the Australian Federal Government style guide use apostrophes relating to dates in this way: In the 1950s, the Dior New Look defined the decade for fashion. It was not 1950's dress of the year. It had been first seen three years earlier, in 1947. But it lasted throughout the decade, and this is the style people regard as the 1950s' dress.

 

[roblynne]

My sources still cite it as correct to use the apostrophe to write the plural of single numbers or letters. It's just not something you need to do very often. So 4's and 5's and a's is still correct, but 'in the 1700's' isn't - don't know where that one came from.

 

[mplsray]

A search of Google Books for "in the 1990's" in the period 2000 to 2013 show that many editors accept this use of the apostrophe. It remains a standard usage.

 

[tdbostick]

You can write it either way.

Personally, I always put the apostraphe.

Maybe your teacher thinks you're trying to make 1980 possessive? But I see you're from NY so he/she should have seen this construction before.

<< --- comment deleted --- >>

If "1980's" is used, it indicates possession and only for the year 1980. If 1980s' is used, it indicates possession for the entire decade. If "1980s" is used, it's referring to all the years in that decade but not in a possessive manner. The only reason an apostrophe would be used in the latter instance is in the shortened version, e.g. "In the '80s," and that only comes in front to indicated the lopped-off "19."

Furthermore, this is standard English anywhere. I've never heard of there being a difference in various countries. People in GB, US, AUS, NZ all make mistakes with this, and perhaps one variety of mistake is more popular in one region than another, but nonetheless, the rule's the same everywhere: apostrophes indicate possession and contractions, not plural.

 

[ewie]

<< --- comment deleted --- >>

As has been said numerous times in this thread, the obsolescent apostrophe in 1980's [the decade] has nothing to do with 'grammar' or 'logic' or 'what punctuation means': it's there entirely as a matter of convention. Conventions in punctuation come and go: this one is half-way out the door.

<< --- topic drift --- >>

 

[MikeT1978]

This is incorrect. In this case, 1980s should NEVER have an apostrophe.


The only case where you would use an apostrophe with a year is if it's posessive. E.g. The 1980s' mentality towards AIDS was much different [note placement]. Or, if you're refering to a single year, you could say, 1980's theme song was "All I do is love".

You are mistaken actually. In the American English language it can be used either way. Here is a link to Purdue OWL who is used as a reference to proper American grammar under the MLA (Modern Language Association) Purdue OWL: Numbers

Because there are so many from all over the world here, it is safe to say that we should not be telling anybody they're wrong without actual evidence to support the accusation. Proper writing is different throughout the regions of the world and we need to all understand that. What may be correct in your country, may be incorrect in another.

 

[re34646]

I know this is an old thread, but there is a use for an apostrophe in situations that are not possessive.

As an example, someone posted x's and o's. Why should this be rational? Because otherwise, if you have more than one a, do you write "I have two a's", or "I have two as"? The second reading makes no sense, as you understand the word to be "as", not two of the same letter a. Similarly, would you write, "I have two i's", or "I have two is"? To be consistent then, you have to ripple that through x's and o's.

So, if I write that a person wore something through the 1980s, do I mean they wore something through two separate things called 1980? The 1980s implies a plural, but a plural what? A plural years? Even the question doesn't seem to make sense.

So the apostrophe becomes a separator to provide clarity. How does this apply to "the 1980s"? Well, "the 1980s" is not technically two words. Its a word "the", combined with something. Kind of a number, kind of a word.

So we need to adapt to the accepted usage, which may differ by country.

 

[DonnyB]

So, if I write that a person wore something through the 1980s, do I mean they wore something through two separate things called 1980? The 1980s implies a plural, but a plural what? A plural years? Even the question doesn't seem to make sense.

So the apostrophe becomes a separator to provide clarity. How does this apply to "the 1980s"? Well, "the 1980s" is not technically two words. Its a word "the", combined with something. Kind of a number, kind of a word.

So we need to adapt to the accepted usage, which may differ by country.

The plural 's' there surely arises from the fact that it's a shorthand way of expressing the ten years from 1980 to 1989. As you say, the apostrophe seems to provide clarity for some people (while apparently irritating others): there's no grammatical reason for it.

I tend to write "the 1980s" but I don't personally mind "the 1980's" if that's what people decide they want to use.

Oh, and welcome to the forum, by the way.

 

[Glenfarclas]

So the apostrophe becomes a separator to provide clarity. How does this apply to "the 1980s"? Well, "the 1980s" is not technically two words. Its a word "the", combined with something. Kind of a number, kind of a word.

It's "the nineteen-eighties," but written with numerals.

The plural 's' there surely arises from the fact that it's a shorthand way of expressing the ten years from 1980 to 1989.

Yes, exactly. The plural doesn't imply "1980 and 1980" but "1980, 1981, ... 1989."

 

[natkretep]

When I was growing up, it was normal to write 1950's and to-day. Nowadays, we generally see 1950s and today.

Yes, we habitually use the plural numbers in these ways: men in their twenties, women in their thirties; they paid hundreds for the statue. The argument for no apostrophes is precisely that you wouldn't use the apostrophes if the numbers were spelt out.