A beautiful (wo)man in your country?

Discussion in 'Cultural Discussions' started by meeryanah, Mar 18, 2007.

  1. meeryanah Member

    Hello everyone!
    I was just wondering, as the title sasy, what would be a beautiful man or a woman in your country.
    I'm aware that different people have different tastes, but in general, what would you say?
    Do men need to have muscles and do women need to be thin with big breasts, to be atractive to a wider number of people?
  2. Macunaíma

    Macunaíma Senior Member

    Um ninho de mafagalfinhos
    português, Brasil
    I think that's more of a matter of individual taste. One thing I can say for sure, though: most Brazilian men don't find the beauty standard of Brazilian supermodels (who are sometimes more famous abroad than here) exactly attactive. The much-hyped Gisele Bündchen and other "Victoria's Secret's angles", although all of them beautiful, don't conform to our general idea of feminine beauty. They cater for a foreign audience, as it were.
    If I were to outline the features of a Brazilian Beauty (as seen by a Brazilian man), she would have slim waist, wide hips (in short: hourglass figure), long hair, she would be shorter-than-me (although I like girls who are taller than me...or shorter than me), a sun-tanned skin and, most important, a beautiful and easy smile (not the blasé attitude of fashion models, definitely). Of course there are HUGE variations. I'm sticking to a rather vague model, or stereotype, if you like.

    To the best of my knowledge, there's no such thing as beautiful men in Brazil _except perhaps for myself :D

    But most people (especially intelligent people) attach the concept of beauty to more than just looks _personality plays the decisive role. Being beautiful means to be yourself, which means: being unique, being valuable. Nothing is more depressing than girls/boys trying to put on an image (looks and attitude) copied from fashion magazines, the media, etc. Being beautiful is about being self-confident, happy, good-humoured... you see, beauty in another individual is something impossible to describe objectively, because it's all about how YOU feel towards them. There's no describing it in a collective scale, I guess. Just think of the millions of girls who differ from the beauty standard chosen on a whim by an influent editor of a fashion magazine and the millions of boys who find them beautiful and fall in love for them all the same...

  3. Joca

    Joca Senior Member

    Florianópolis, Brazil
    Brazilian Portuguese
    Hi Meeryanah, hi Macunaíma:

    I agree with most of what you say, Macunaíma. But are you sure the word "beautiful" can really be applied to a man? Don't you say a handsome man rather than a beautiful man?

    For me, personally, beauty has to do not only with body and face, but also with behaviour and voice. I can't say a woman is beautiful or a man is handsome until I hear them say/utter something.

  4. have you ever seen a beautiful man/woman somwhere... the most beautiful of them all... And then you talk to them, and... The bubble is burst?

    Have you ever seen someone who is not remarkable by their physical beauty... And then you begin talking to them? And you notice the sparkle in their eyes, their smile, their personnality, the way they move, their hands, their neck, their...? And then they become so irresistably attractive, so-die-for sexy, that you could not imagine a greater beauty?

    Women are pretty, men are handsome... Both sexes are beautiful!
  5. Joca

    Joca Senior Member

    Florianópolis, Brazil
    Brazilian Portuguese
    This is a great post. Thanks.
  6. Thank, you, joca... As they say, and it is always as true: Beauty is in the eye of the beholder..; and beauty is as beauty does :)!
  7. Joca

    Joca Senior Member

    Florianópolis, Brazil
    Brazilian Portuguese
    Or again: Beauty is only skin-deep.

    Merci encore. Au revoir.

  8. TRG Senior Member

    english USA
    There has been some research done and published in the matter of facial attractiveness. It's been some time since I read about it, and I didn't find anything in making a quick internet search. As I recall the study found that faces that were very symmetrical were the most attractive across racial groups and cultures. I believe they even tested infants to see what kinds of faces infants responded best to and found the same results. I could be off on some of this, but that's what I recall.
  9. Absolutely, TRG, I have read the same studies. Also, men seem fatally attracted to female measurements that represent an hourglass shape - breasts and hips roughly equal, with a slender waist.

    But I find that most of these paramaters find their excpetion, because while it's nice to look at someone like that, spending and investing a lifetime with them is quite another story!
  10. SwissPete

    SwissPete Senior Member

    94044 USA
    Français (CH), AE (California)
    ... and attitude!
  11. TRG Senior Member

    english USA
    As the song says, "If you want to be happy for the rest of your life, make an ugly woman your wife."
  12. danielfranco

    danielfranco Senior Member

    What the studies show, in broad generalization, is that men are attracted to a specific ratio in the female body's proportions. This ratio seems to be hard-wired into our procreation instincts. This ratio seems to be a fairly good indication of how fertile the female in question is. And no matter how skinny or how voluptuous the woman in question is, if her body measurments fit the golden ratio, she will be absolutely desirable.

    Ah, but we like to believe we have left behind our animal selves and are rational creatures, no?

    No such luck...
  13. faranji Senior Member

    Bahia (Brasil)
  14. Joca

    Joca Senior Member

    Florianópolis, Brazil
    Brazilian Portuguese
    I'm typing this again in bold: Ah, but we like to believe we have left behind our animal selves and are rational creatures, no?

    We haven't. I agree that a great deal of our choices are still based upon instinct, but it seems that at the same time, as we grow in age, we also gradually move beyond instinct. Actually it seems our choices are based upon a mixture of instinct and reason (memories, past experiences, whatever it is). Maybe as we get older we eventually learn that the final, decisive chemistry is relationship.
  15. Etcetera

    Etcetera Senior Member

    St Petersburg, Russia
    Russian, Russia (St Petersburg)
    Last summer most girls here were swooning about Orlando Bloom. Two years ago it was Hayden Christensen and nine years ago - Leonardo Di Caprio (I still remember the Titanic craze). I sometimes have the suspicion that the standard of beauty depends on what's going in the cinema at the moment.
    And speaking seriously, I wholeheartedly agree with Badgrammar and others. Beauty is only skin-deep.
  16. And we also have different hard-wired (innate) imperatives at different ages. Young males are hardwired to procreate and therefore are especially (but not uniquely) attracted to young females who present all the signs of being fertile: Breasts, healthy hair, "child-bearing" hips (generous hips), rosy lips and cheeks. And this because biologically speaking, women presenting these features will be able to pop out babies, survive childbirth, and be able to nourish their offspring at their breast.

    Obviously these are things that function at a subconscious level. But they do describe why certain physical traits attract the boys like flies ;).

    But going beyond that, different cultures may prefer more or less flesh on the bones, and there is also, unfortunately but quite often, a preference for lighter skin tones and blue/green eyes. I think that may be more linked to the (increasing) rarity of those traits more than to a biological imperative.

    Oh, and, as you get older, that drive to procreate (and testosterone levels in men and the arrival of menopause in women) tends to subside, and you become, finally, a little more intelligent about life and what is most important in attraction to someone else. Which is great, because ideally that means you and the Mrs. have made your babies and are now starting to get older, gracefully and gratefully.
  17. jonquiliser

    jonquiliser Senior Member

    Svediż tal-Finlandja
    I can't believe my eyes when I read some posts!! It seems so obvious that the type of studies published on a regular basis, about "what features are attractive", are just ideological, nonsensical, utterly confused and blatantly disgusting, among some of their attributes; in other words, they are utter rubbish elevated to the status of "science" (not that the rest of science is always that much better..), and people take it seriously! I mean, do you believe yourselves? It should be equally obvious how beauty ideals change, and have changed, throughout history, and how stereotypes and "beauty" are used to oppress, to discriminate, to make divisions between people where none really are, to objectify people. And above all, these fricking freaky ideas about "beauty" as some sort of objective property. I am appalled, to say it diplomatically. Beauty is perhaps in the eye of the beholder, but I think it is more to the point to say that beauty is in love. When one is able to look at people in love, taking them seriously for the persons they are, beauty sparkles all over their being. I think badgrammar said it quite nicely.

    Golden ratios and their like sound fascist to my ears.
  18. jonquiliser

    jonquiliser Senior Member

    Svediż tal-Finlandja
    I don't think there's hard-wiring to account for that, the ideological drive of our societ(ies) to drive home that point over and over again, makes people end up just as stupid as that. And stupid is what it is, nothing more or less.
  19. Joca

    Joca Senior Member

    Florianópolis, Brazil
    Brazilian Portuguese
    I'll take you at your word here. These things annoy me, too, but I am afraid there's also something very physical in our movement towards other people. If it is about beauty, scent, colour, voice, whatever, I don't know, but I know there is. And usually young people are more subject to these forces than the old. We [the old, not including you, by the way] can resort to different strategies.

  20. Jonquiliser, I understand that you don't agree with much of what has been said here. In an ideal world, I don't either. In an ideal world, people look straight into other peoples' hearts and love intellectually before loving physically, and attraction is solely based on non-physical attributes.

    But human beings are animals, and like any animal, they are driven by certain biological imperatives. One of which is reproduction. And the manner in which human beings, like other species, evolved to choose their mates involves a lot of visual criteria, whether this pleases us or not. And in women, external signs of fertility and the ability to bear children are right up there. We can obviously, as thinking human beings, get around this, thank your deity of choice. But it is there.

    I don't believe that all studies refered to above are the product of pseudo-science or of some ideological agenda put forth by society. There have been some excellent and highly scientific studies on such matters, as they are questions of great interest.

    I believe we are absolutely genetically pre-disposed to some behaviors. There are things that men and women are "hard-wired" to do. Were there not, the human race, like any other, would have died out long ago.
  21. jonquiliser

    jonquiliser Senior Member

    Svediż tal-Finlandja
    Joca and badgrammar:

    The curious thing, then, would be how these "facts" of "hard-wiring" in us are to be established? How can we, as it were, disconnect us from the ideological surrounding in which we exist, to determine what lies "underneath" or "behind" what we do and think and say? How are we to make sense of the fact that ideals change? Is it that fertility changes at the same time? And what says that "big boobs" or "hourglass shape" or some other stereotype of "beauty" make women more fertile?? Big breasts can be difficult to live with, so go figure. Neither does a big cock, the fancy fantasy of all men, if some sources are to be taken seriously, make a man more fertile. (Though, curiously, it is usually women's fertility that comes up for discussion. Wonder why :rolleyes: ) And what does fertility have to do with it all? Not even the most hardcore sociobiologist can make a coherent, convincing claim for the importance of fertility *as such* in biological evolution.

    I don't deny that we are physical beings, and it is NOT in my ideal vision of society and human life, that we "appreciate each other for non-physical traits alone". "I love you for your soul and mind, not your body", certainly doesn't sound flattering to me, and even less is it an expression of love (what it does express, I would rather not even think about). What I am saying is instead, that love SEES beauty, and I cannot stress this enough. Can you genuinly say you love a person, yet at the same time think of him or her as ugly? I simply think it is impossible, unless that love in question is utterly weird and non-loving. The physical dimension of our lives is obviously important, we are bodies, in a sense of saying it, as the beings we are we relate to others and their and our bodies are always involved. That is true for any age.

    And no, I am not one of those people you seem to want to refer to, "young people not yet wise enough to see other things than certain golden ratios" and other nonsensicalities.

    I may sound harsh, and I honestly apologise, but I am genuinly offended, saddened and upset that people take to heart such twisted ideas of seeing others. :(
  22. TRG Senior Member

    english USA
    I concur with the above comments. I also think that to wonder why we are the way we are is only normal and that people should subject this to scientific scrutiny or academic study is perfectly natural. It is a question for which there may never be a complete answer, but that doesn't mean that people should not want to find out. I have my own theory which is that physical attraction is the exact opposite of magnetic attraction where opposites attract. In humans physical attraction is often towards people that we resemble. I am often struck by the extent to which couples resemble one another as if they could be siblings. I'm sure this has been studied as well. Perhaps someone knows.
  23. HistofEng Senior Member

    New York
    USA Eng, Haitian-Creole
    Even babies (from all over the world) tend to stare at symetrical faces (beauty) more than unsymetrical faces.

    To me, the fact that newborn babies stare at faces in general more intensely than any other object in the world means that what we are "drawn to" has a deep biological basis.

    I don't see how anyone can deny this.
  24. Joca

    Joca Senior Member

    Florianópolis, Brazil
    Brazilian Portuguese
    Well, I want to apologize to you if I have inadvertently offended you by means of any of my personal hunches. I don't think I have a distorted view of youth. Not even all young people hold the same values, you know. This is just a discussion, not a competition, not an attack, we are just exposing our opinions, and as far as I am concerned, I am not trying to label anyone whomsoever. I can only talk of my own experience: when I was young, beauty was more important for me than it is now, maybe never so important as it was to most guys the same age, but it was. Now I try to look deeper. Or in other words, beauty for me is not ONLY on your surface, but also (and mainly) in the way you relate to other people and move about in your own life. But I will never attempt to deny the biological forces that are still in force in us, to different degrees.

  25. maxiogee Banned

    Around here, from my observation of the species, I can state categorically that a heartbeat and a few limbs are all that seem to matter. All sorts of shapes and sizes seem to register with someone! :)

    There is a sort of beauty/talent pagent here called The Rose of Tralee. Named after a beautiful woman in a well-known Irish song, the competition is held annually in the town of Tralee. It is open to women which some Irish heritage, from anywhere in the world. The only way to enter is through a locally held eliminator and the winner of that is deemed to be the "London Rose" or the "New York Rose". Every year there are about 30 or 40 contestants and there is a wide variety of looks and personalities among them. The public rarely seem to agree on which is most likely to win.
  26. I believe there are types of answers to this question:

    Society's version of a beautiful (wo)man: Especially, IMO, for women. We should be stick thin, blond, etc... I think this is necessary to point out because there is so much societal pressure on women to look a certain way. But does that really matter in the end? Probably not, but it certainly makes women do crazy things to look that way or act that way. Same goes for men, too. I'm just a female so that's why I'm saying women.

    Individual opinions: this can be anything.
  27. jonquiliser

    jonquiliser Senior Member

    Svediż tal-Finlandja
    Hello Joca,

    my apology was rather about the rest of my message(s), and not about what I said about youth. (I don't count myself in on your desription of youth anyway, and I don't really care what you do chose to think on that, I'll just take you to be wrong if you insist on thinking so of me!) Anyway, I don't really believe your conception of youth is all wrong, I do believe there is much of what you describe around *(though I am not so sure that it is more true of younger people.. I'll abstain from giving examples, for the sake of peace of mind). My desagreement is in the explanation we give for that fact.

    And to that I can add that I don't deny there are "biological forces", as you choose to describe them, in us, what I do deny is that they are what you claim they are. I believe it often works like this: first there is an idea of what those "forces" will be, and then people act out on them. So then, in the doings of people, you will find "evidence" of those forces. But that doesn't mean that the forces are biological, as in "in our genes".

    HistofEng; in no way do I want to deny the importance of the face for the newborn baby!! Of course that is tremendous, and yes, it is related to our condition as "biological beings" (if that is how you wish to put it). But the "symmetry" bit, I toss straight in the bin. I mean, what is it supposed to mean? That babies with parents of "symmetrical facial features" will be happier?! :eek: :confused: What can I say, I am lost for words because I simply don't understand what on earth it is supposed to mean.

  28. Jonquil,

    I understand your views, but I don't really understand the offence you take at what has been said. A while back I was involved in another thread about differences between men and women and it got rather heated, because I maintained that we have a lot of differences, aside from our genitalia, and another poster (or two) thought this was an awful thing to say, and believed that to be totally unfounded.

    I guess I don't think that recognition of the biological differences between the sexes means that someone can then say "So, you see, women are better than men" or vice versa. In the same light, I don't think that trying to understand the biological and evolutionary basis of mating behavior in the human species is like saying "So see, women with big hips and small waists are superior".

    If I had a little more time here tonight I'd go fishing around the web, and I'm sure I could find lots and lots of decent research (methodologically speaking) that addresses these issues.

    You said: "I believe it often works like this: first there is an idea of what those "forces" will be, and then people act out on them. So then, in the doings of people, you will find "evidence" of those forces. But that doesn't mean that the forces are biological, as in "in our genes"."

    I don't believe that people behave solely based on sociological formulations - I think with that assertion, you're putting the cart before the horse. Some things are in our genes, and highly influenced by our hormones (the influence of testosterone on the male brain begins during gestation, and its effects are not only powerful but also well-researched).

    Denying biological predisposition seems silly to me, but to each his own.
  29. HistofEng Senior Member

    New York
    USA Eng, Haitian-Creole
    Symmetry is regarded across cultures (and ages, and races, etc, etc....across the board) as the cornerstone of what tends to be considered physically attractive (this is not to say that one cannot be attracted to unsymmetical faces).

    When people are shown photographs of strangers and are asked to score them based on their attractiveness, the most symmetrical faces, the waist to hip ratio closest to the golden ratio (which is differenct for men and women), etc are the ones who receive the highest score. And it's the same all around the world.

    Of course some cultures like thicker, or bigger women, others like blonde hair, etc, but the waist to hip ratio that is most desired (regardless of size) is the same all over the planet.

    Of course with babies, we can't ask them directly what they consider beautiful, all we can do is observe what objects they spend the most time examining, or how dialated their pupils get when staring at particular objects. What we have found (very much conclusively) is that babies spend much more time gazing faces more than any other object in the world, and furthermore, when presented with the same photographs of strangers, tend to stare at those with more symmetrical faces than the others.

    You may say it's a coincidence, but I don't think so, I think that babies (relatively untainted by cultural conditioning) are showing us that there is a basic characteristic of attractiveness that people perceive, in general, and that we are born with.

    Maybe it would be better (or maybe you would be more comfortable) if we used the term "attractiveness" rather than "beauty." I can sort of see where you may be coming from. When I see my mom, or some of my friends, I see them as such beautiful people, the way they dress, smile, stand, walk, etc. But I generally don't find them that attractive.
  30. jonquiliser

    jonquiliser Senior Member

    Svediż tal-Finlandja
    badgrammar, I am completely sure too that you can find tons of research on the topic, and it may very well be good or even excellent in terms of methodology. But what's this when the fundamental perspective from which the whole idea of making such research (and why would one, anyway? For whom is it a question "which kind of features are the most beautiful"?? - as if there were such a thing, but anyway) is flawed? The most brilliant and reputable scientists can do the most stupid research. There is nothing in the fact that something has been "investigated scientifically" to warrant that the investigation was good, or even intelligible (unfortunately, one would wish a little more of science). As brief comment, I don't deny biological predispositions, I just don't think that it is always very clear WHAT this are. (The issue of differences I'll just have to skip, it is an interesting issue, that all too often is simplified into unintelligibility, but also a large topic and time is short.. But it doesn't mean I think your remarks are irrelevant or uninteresting!)

    And about the symmetry still, HistofEng, I am not convinced by the fact that a baby looks for a longer period of time on a face, that we can thus speak of attraction to that face. And anyway, we aren't "amorphous" creatures, so obviously it "matters" in a way, what we look like. But I think that is a point rather far removed from the one you wish to make..(?) Finally, I don't think the distinction between "culturally conditioned" and "natural" does such a lot of work in making the issue any clearer. Especially, because I wonder what culturally conditioned is supposed to mean at all..? can we imagine a person not "conditioned" (though I wouldn't choose that word, as it seems to be implying something very specific about what culture is, i.e. something that "thwarts" a natural character of sth/smn) by culture, yet being someone who we can at all understand, and who will at all share values we may have?

    Unfortunately, as for many here I guess, my time is limited and I can't go any further into this, and we just have to leave it at this disagreement. But I hope I at least made a little clearer what I think and why I see problems in some of the ways of talking about beauty that have come up in this thread.

  31. Cecilio

    Cecilio Senior Member

    Valencia, Spain
    Spanish, Valencian/Catalan
    The first time I heard about beauty connected with symmetry and related issues was in an interview with Karl Grammer I saw on Spanish TV. Karl Grammer is a completely serious scientist who has carried out lots of research in the field of human etyology. And later on I discovered that there are actually a lot of researchers in this field in many universities reaching very clear and scientifically acceptable conclusions like the ones badgrammar was mentioning (by the way, I think your posts in this thread are excellent).

    I think Jonquilizer has made a clear mistake by underrating this kind of research and calling it pseudoscience.

    My personal opinion about the issue, from my own personal experience and what I have read in books or on the Internet or what I have seen in TV documentaries, is that the patters of human beauty are basically the same for all of us, with little personal or regional variation.
  32. JazzByChas

    JazzByChas Senior Member

    Houston, TX USA
    American English
    Although I am aware of the cultural definition of beauty that is found in a man or woman, I will forego that definition. Not to say that I don't admire the human form, but real beauty, to quote the cliché, comes from within. Beauty on the outside can be instantly negated by ugliness on the inside.
  33. The extent to which I agree with you cannot be understated!
  34. Vespasian Senior Member

    Switzerland, German language
    You must be kidding. If we don't replicate we will not exist anymore.
  35. tvdxer Senior Member

    Minnesota, U.S.A.
    Minnesota, U.S.A. - English
    The V-shaped torso, as in most cultures, is considered to be an attractive feature of men in American culture. A good example of a currently popular celebrity considered attractive by American women would be Johnny Depp.

    As for American women, I think the "thin with big breasts" thing is still considered attractive, though it's a bit of a cliche and American men are more accepting of non-thin women. The whole "pencil-thin model" thing has been out for some time and curvier (but not fat) women are being considered more attractive.

    The hips thing kind of interests me...American men do not seem to have the same obsession with caderas / cadeiras that Latin men do. I wonder why this is.
  36. JazzByChas

    JazzByChas Senior Member

    Houston, TX USA
    American English
    Another well made point, BG...as you said in an earlier post, true beauty starts to emanate from within, and the most beautiful person is one with whom you are willing to spend a lifetime, loving (as in the verb, not the "feeling") them through good and bad. This even works with a very close friend. It's sort of like the theory in most dating sites these days: it helps to be attracted to someone with whom you are compatible, and share similar interests.

    So, "beauty" is a very subjective thing, but can be measured most effectively in character.

  37. danielfranco

    danielfranco Senior Member

    Well, I wouldn't go as far as to presume that I know, but I've read before that the reason why it seems that couples resemble each other is because they spend so much time together. Before very long (I haven't read any figures, but I would expect just a few days are enough), people start adopting each other's mannerisms and body language. Just as with entertainers who "impersonate" celebrities, it's not really a matter of looking very much alike (which is difficult) or sounding exactly alike (which is virtually impossible), but of having similar gestures and speech cadences. But after a while of subconsciously imitating each other's "quirks", facial muscles and other fine-motor control muscles develop similarly and help the observer find those couple remarkably similar in appearance. And, sometimes, even in temperament. I mean, after all, many of our responses to situations are often expressed mainly with body language.

    Or something...
  38. Musical Chairs Senior Member

    Japan & US, Japanese & English
    How are beauty standards (for men and women) in your country? What traits are considered sexiest in your country (eyes, body, breasts, hair, height, weight, etc.) and why do you think that is?

    I've read that in some cultures, being fat (which shows fertility) is considered more beautiful than skinny. Apparently (I don't know if this is a fact), their women are force-fed so they are fatter. However for me, the most beautiful people I have seen are either a little chubby, average, or a little skinny (not TOO skinny). I don't think I could ever consider fatness or extreme thinness a hot trait, and many people in the US agree with me.

    I know Asian girls who think some Asian actors are "hot," but when I look at them, I think they look way too feminine. They're also too skinny, too short, and other characteristics I would not consider hot in a man. Asian cultures more often like breasts, but it seems like Western cultures are more often interested in a nice body. Also, they really like manipulating their eyelids so they don't have such Asian eyes, which I think is stupid but understandable.
  39. faranji Senior Member

    Bahia (Brasil)
    Hi Musical,

    I don't know how to link a thread but this topic was already discussed a few weeks ago in a thread named "A beautiful (wo)man in your country". You may want to look for it.


    The 2 threads have now been merged. Thank you.
  40. . 1 Banned

    Ferntree Gully
    Australian Australia
    Eyes first with daylight second and then body.
    Height, weight, shape, hair, teeth, colour, etcetera are irrelevent as long as you have an assortment that is basically symmetrical.
    Extreme thinness is considered odd and therefore unattraactive.
    Extreme fatness is considered odd and therefore unattractive.
    Extreme beauty is considered odd and therefore unattractive.

    Beauty in all cultures is based on symmetry. Nothing more.

    Possibly. It sounds logical.
    Which cultures?

    I am actually quite looking forward to the response of a person with more than a passing interest in equality to examine this clanger!
    Their women indeed!
    You sound like you are discussing geese having food crammed down their gullet through a funnel held in the paws of a grimy peasant who owns his wife as a chattel.
    This should be interesting.

    No great insight here!

    You must be kidding. Introduce me to a bloke who doesn't like breasts and I'll shake hands with a homosexual.

    My opinion is that this question is based on observation gleaned from television and movies not reality.

  41. Musical Chairs Senior Member

    Japan & US, Japanese & English
    I should've said BIG breasts in the post. I'm pretty sure the LIKE breasts but most guys I know say that they don't really care how big breasts are as long as there is at least a handful each and are nicely shaped. And a lot of them say they think butt / toned body is a better turn-on.

    I'll come back to this after I've read the other thread.
  42. faranji Senior Member

    Bahia (Brasil)
    It's Mauritania, dear Robert.
  43. Macunaíma

    Macunaíma Senior Member

    Um ninho de mafagalfinhos
    português, Brasil
    Gilberto Freyre in Casa Grande & Senzala (Master & Slaves, in the English translation) explored the theme of how the beauty pattern for women evolved in Brazil since colonial times. Until the beginning of the XIX century, when the Portuguese royal family moved to Rio de Janeiro and Brazil began to have contact with modern Europe (until then the Brazilian ports had been closed to foreign ships and only a few non-Portuguese Europeans were allowed to live or stay here) the beauty standard was that of a fat woman with large breasts and wide hips. Gilberto cited many renowned anthropologists who ascribed that specific pattern of feminine beauty to the fact that in patriarchal cultures, as was the case in Brazil, they tend to seek as much differenciation between masculine and feminine body shapes as possible, having the Brazilians of the colonial times, according to Freyre, inherited their preference for fat women from the Moors (Islamic people who lived in the south of Spain and Portugal from the VIIIth to the XVth century) through the Portuguese. Perhaps the patriarchy in Mauritania helps explain why women are force-fed there to conform to their beaty standard.

  44. maxiogee Banned

    Slipping, it would appear.
    What passes for beauty nowadays wouldn't have made the grade forty years ago.
  45. . 1 Banned

    Ferntree Gully
    Australian Australia
    Yes. That would have been better. Now there is another alienated group.
    You have been hanging around with the wrong mob.
    Big tits, small tits, big bum, small bum, tall, short, thin fat, blond, brunette, redhead, long legs, long body it's all tosh.

    EVERY professional photograph you see of a professional model has been airbrushed to within a picometre of reality.
    The whites of the eyes are whitened.
    The teeth have been whitened.
    The waist has been narrowed.
    The thighs have been thinned.
    Sometimes the whole photo is stretched to make her look taller and thinner.
    Every skin mark is removed.
    The pupils are enlarged.
    The whole eye is enlarged.
    Tits are pumped up or deflated depending upon the situation.
    By the end you may as well be ogling a cartoon.

    Fashion models are actually freaks or mutants, depends on which word you think suits.
    They comprise such a tiny percentage of the population that they qualify as freaks on a mathematical basis.
    There are more people with Downs Syndrome or Autism or Aspberger's Syndrome than are fashion models.
    Most suffer stupifying health problems as they age and most never reproduce. If you were considering buying a dog these are attributes that you would steer well clear of.

    Movies and magazines sell fantasy.

    Stop looking at a girl's tits and ask her a few questions about herself. You may be fascinated and she may decide that she wants you to have a look and that is completely different and enormously more fun for all concerned rather than you just copping a quick perve.

  46. Joca

    Joca Senior Member

    Florianópolis, Brazil
    Brazilian Portuguese
    Ok. Even though Brazil is a very large country comprising so many different races and peoples, it is possible to draw a list of our favourite beauty standards. I would risk this one:

    1. Tanned skin.
    2. Brown or dark hair (especially for a man).
    3. Curves for a woman (buttocks in particular).
    4. Shoulders for a man.
    5. Your gait, that is, the way you walk. This is especially important for a woman.

  47. alexacohen

    alexacohen Banned

    Santiago de Compostela
    Spanish. Spain
    Beauty is only skin deep. Ugly goes to the bone.
  48. maxiogee Banned

    It may do, but it comes out in the mouth and the actions.

    I've known some very pretty/handsome people who were ugly deep inside.
  49. jonquiliser

    jonquiliser Senior Member

    Svediż tal-Finlandja
    There's a watertight formula for beauty: first of all, when it comes to women, charming, flattering, bootlicking to men - anything that boosts the male ego will rake in extra points in the game of determining what constitutes beauty.

    Men should try to be bossy, dominating, compete among themselves - that increases social status and thus attractiveness.

    If you can, the best to go with this is to formulate your own scientific theory that supports whatever you find appropriate. Among the essential ingredients we have all things evolutionary - no theory is complete without its evolutionary references. (Someone is so pretty to you when they smile? Then you could say that plentyful smiling improves the quality of ova or sperm, respectively. Simply choose explanation after your liking). For good measure, and for your theory not to seem too alienated, do throw in a few psychologising elements as well. Or better yet, combine the psycho with evo, and you're bound to succeed.

    I venture to say you'll hit the charts with this lil' pearl anywhere. People like 'explanations'. :D
  50. maxiogee Banned

    Are we talking about 'beauty' or 'attractive' here. There's a huge difference.
    No one would call me handsome or beautiful, but my wife obviously saw something which attracted her.
    One can look at someone and see their beauty without wanting to have babies with them, or even have a relationship with them.

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