a central notion...is the notion

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trikilitrakala

Senior Member
italian
"We need to anticipate at this point that a central notion in Suárez’ account of representation is the notion of force."
"We need to anticipate at this point that a central notion in Suárez’ account of representation is that of force."
Both sound wrong, but I can't come out with the right phrase.
 
  • Joelline

    Senior Member
    American English
    "We need to anticipate at this point that a central notion in Suárez’ account of representation is the notion of force."

    "We need to anticipate at this point that a central notion in Suárez’ account of representation is that of force."
    In my opinion, the second sentence is preferable; I would avoid the repetition of the word "notion." However, you could use a synonym for "notion," such as: "We need to anticipate at this point that a central notion in Suárez’ account of representation is the concept of force." OR
    "We need to anticipate at this point that a central notion in Suárez’ account of representation is the idea of force."
     

    trikilitrakala

    Senior Member
    italian
    Avoiding the repetition does not seem to solve the little elegance of the phrase. Probably, I should simply change it completely.
     

    cuchuflete

    Senior Member
    EEUU-inglés
    "We need to anticipate at this point that a central notion in Suárez’ account of representation is that of force."

    It may be a foolish question, but without context I think we are entitled to ask—
    Why say "anticipate"? Do you really mean that, or could it be that the sentence calls for
    recognition or acknowledgment?

    At this point we need to (appropriate verb) that force is a central notion in Suárez's account of representation.
     

    trikilitrakala

    Senior Member
    italian
    "We need to anticipate at this point that a central notion in Suárez’ account of representation is that of force."

    It may be a foolish question, but without context I think we are entitled to ask—
    Why say "anticipate"? Do you really mean that, or could it be that the sentence calls for
    recognition or acknowledgment?

    At this point we need to (appropriate verb) that force is a central notion in Suárez's account of representation.
    ..I'm afraid I didn't get it. The Italian phrase would be:
    "a questo punto dobbiamo anticipare che una nozione centrale nel resoconto sulla rappresentazione fornito da Suarez è la nozione di forza"

    Isn't "anticipate" the appropriate English verb here?

    The suggestion about the phrase would be a very good one, if it wasn't that I am here introducing a new notion (force), so if we say:
    "we need to anticipate (???) that force is a central notion in Suarez account of representation"
    It seems that we are talking of something we already know.

    Uhm. The phrase sounds weird also in Italian.
    :eek:
     

    trikilitrakala

    Senior Member
    italian
    Ok, maybe this is the better option:
    "we must here introduce the notion of force. This is a central notion in Suarez account of representation".
    Thank you all and sorry for the triky question.
    But I would still like to know if I got the verb "anticipate" wrong.
     

    cuchuflete

    Senior Member
    EEUU-inglés
    Hi triki....
    In English, anticipate means to foresee, or to expect. We still haven't seen context, so I still don't know if that is the best term to use. Generally we use anticipate to refer to something that hasn't yet happened, or hasn't yet become evident. It is about expectations. Thus, if you know that force is a central notion, then anticipate would not be the best word to use, regardless of the Italian original. If the account of representation has already been furnished by Suárez, and the writer has seen it, then
    anticipate is clearly wrong in English. Anticipating what has already become known, or has been seen, makes little sense in English.

    I like your revised version. A couple of minor edits to it:

    "We must here introduce the notion of force. This is a central notion in Suárez's account of representation".

    This is much more direct writing than the previous versions. It says things in a clear and forceful way.
     

    trikilitrakala

    Senior Member
    italian
    Oh..
    I'm sooo sorry. I was sure this was in fact the italian-english forum...until joelline let me notice that it isn't...

    Fortunately, I didn't write anything in Italian, besides that phrase.

    When I've said that we needed to anticipate about force, I meant that I was talking in advance of an argument (representation in Suarez's theory) that I would have illustrated in detail only later.
    However, at that point it was necessary to talk in advance of force in order to clarify some points in the discussion.

    I hope it is clear now.

    Thank you cuchuflete, and sorry again for the phrase in Italian!
     

    Loob

    Senior Member
    English UK
    Hi trikilitrakala

    Anticipate is a tricky verb: here are Mirriam-Webster's definitions of it. Grammarians have argued in the past that its use ought to be restricted to the sense of "deal with something in advance" (we anticipated the crisis = we took steps beforehand to meet it).

    But its most usual meanings today are "to foresee" and "to expect", as cuchu says. And I think that these are the only possible meanings when the verb is followed by "that" as in your original sentence.

    Perhaps the simplest way to convey your idea would be to add a few words to your revised version:

    "We must here introduce the notion of force. This is a central notion in Suárez's account of representation, and one which we will discuss in more detail later."
     
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