a Cretan restaurateur

Discussion in 'Ελληνικά (Greek)' started by seitt, Dec 15, 2013.

  1. seitt Senior Member

    Turkey
    English/Welsh
    Greetings

    Please, how can I say in Greek, “a Cretan restaurateur”? I mean a restaurant owner who is from Crete.

    Best wishes, and many thanks,

    Simon
     
  2. cougr Senior Member

    English-Australia
    Κρητικός εστιάτορας/ιδιοκτήτης εστιατορίου
     
  3. seitt Senior Member

    Turkey
    English/Welsh
    Many thanks - so is Κρητικός (with a capital letter) used of a person and κρητικός (with a small letter) used of a thing?
    ένας Κρητικός εστιάτορας - ένα κρητικό εστιατόριο

    This is interesting, because usually the words themselves are different, aren't they?
    ένας Κινέζος εστιάτορας - ένα κινέζικο εστιατόριο
    Perhaps it has something to do with Crete being a region rather than an independent country?
     
  4. cougr Senior Member

    English-Australia
    Opinion on the issue is divided. Some texts advise that where names of national origin/demonyms are used as adjectives (for example as in Κρητικός εστιάτορας) they should be written with a capital first letter whilst others suggest that the lower case be used. My experience has been that more times than not they tend to be written with a capital letter, which is the trend I tend to follow. I'm sure though that there are other opinions on the matter.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2013
  5. Acestor

    Acestor Senior Member

    Athens
    Greek
    In ancient and older Greek, seitt, the word for Cretan was Κρης (Κρης, Κρητός, Κρήτα, Κρήτες, Κρητών, Κρήτας, feminine Κρήσσα). You can still find the plural in some modern uses, e.g. Κρήτες πολεμιστές, even Κρήτες εστιάτορες -- though we wouldn't use that in the singular. The adjective is now also used as a noun instead of Κρης, because modern Greek does not use this old pattern of declension.
     
  6. Αγγελος Senior Member

    Greek
    You are quite right to be wary: usually different forms are used for people and for things, and non-native speakers often slip up on this. We've just had an example on this very forum. Κρητικός is indeed an exception, but not because Crete is not a country. After all, we would also say "ένας Αθηναίος / Κορίνθιος / Ροδίτης /Χιώτης εστιάτορας" but "ένα αθηναϊκό / κορινθιακό / ροδίτικο /χιώτικο εστιατόριο".

    I tried to think of other cases besides κρητικός where the same form would be used for things as for people, and can only think of adjectives ending in stressed -νός: Συριανός (συριανά λουκούμια, from the island of Σύρος), Ζακυνθινός, Χιλιανός, Περουβιανός... If the -νός ending is unstressed, however, then we do make a distinction: Βενετσιάνος ναυτικός but βενετσιάνικος καθρέφτης...
     
  7. cougr Senior Member

    English-Australia
    Just wanted to clarify that my post above pertained to ethnic/toponymic adjectives relating to persons and not things. I have been wondering though, what happens in the case of animals? For example do we write "Κρητικό άλογο" or "κρητικό άλογο"?
     
  8. klitosp Member

    Griego
    Well , for Crete we have:

    The name of the country/place: "Κρήτη"
    Τhe adjective: "κρητικός/ή/ό" ( however you can hear sometimes "κρητικιά" instead of "κρητική")
    Αnd the name of the inhabitante (ethnic name): Κρητικός/Κρητικιά ( this is a noun and not an adjective !!! )

    ( Α!!! and the "το Κρητικάτσι" if you refer to the young Cretan boy... L.O.L )


    So in your example the correct is "κρητικό άλογο" because "κρητικό" is an adjective.

    In order to help you I copy paste this , from another post of mine, because I think that the examlpe of "Κρήτη" is not the best...


    " In greek language you have three words that characterize a place:

    The name of the country/place: , the adjective: , and the name of the inhabitante (ethnic name):

    (η) Κόρινθος , κορινθιακός/ή/ό , Κορίνθιος/α
    (η) Ελλάς/Ελλάδα , ελληνικός/ή/ό , Έλληνας/ίδα
    (η) Αγγλία , αγγλικός/ή/ό , Άγγλος/Αγγλίδα
    (η) Αμερική , αμερικανικός/ή/ό , Αμερικανός/ίδα or Αμερικάνος/α
    .....


    The problem is that in other languages, "the adjective" and "the name of the inhabitante" is the same word ,
    but in greek NO !!!! Also the word " Έλληνας/ίδα " is NOT an adjective ! It's a noun. "

    ciao
     
  9. cougr Senior Member

    English-Australia
    Welcome and thanks for the reply, klitosp.
     
  10. seitt Senior Member

    Turkey
    English/Welsh
    Many thanks to one and all - apart from the precise answering of my question, there is some excellent food for thought here too!
     
  11. Αγγελος Senior Member

    Greek
    Animals behave like things in this respect. Αραβικό / ουγγαρέζικο άλογο, αφρικανικός / ασιατικός ελέφας vs. Άραβας / Ούγγρος or Ουγγαρέζος / Αφρικανός / Ασιάτης.

    In fact, there is a problem with neuter nouns denoting people, such as αγόρι or κορίτσι. There is no way of saying "a Greek boy" or "a Turkish girl" by using an adjective+noun combination. Of course, there are the single words Ελληνόπουλο / Τουρκοπούλα, but there is no *Αθηναιόπουλο or *Ροδιτόπουλο -- and there is no convenient way of speaking of Greek cub scouts, other than referring to them as λυκόπουλα της Ελλάδας or λυκόπουλα από την Ελλάδα (ελληνικά λυκόπουλα, though perhaps marginally possible, sounds extremely awkward to me.)
     
  12. klitosp Member

    Griego
    I think it should be better: "ουγγρικό αλογο" (ουγγρικός/ή/ό) . "ουγγαρέζικο - ουγγαρέζος" is a little bit slang...

    As correctly Αγγελος said, the name of the inhabitante (ethnic name) is only for persons and not for animals.
    Except if you want to "humanize" your pet a little bit. Something like calling your cat or dog , "he or she".
    There is a song that says: "Ο γάτος σου ο Τούρκος" lol...
     

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