A delegate of / The delegate of

Grapez

Senior Member
English- American/ Hebrew
How do we differentiate between a definitive noun and an non-definitive noun in اضافة؟

For example how would I differentiate "a delegate of the UN ..." (مندوب الأمم المتحدة) with "the delegate of the UN" ( a specific delegate)?
 
  • cherine

    Moderator
    Arabic (Egypt).
    I'm not sure about the preposition , but I believe that if it means he's sent by his country to work in the UN, then it should be مندوب لدى الأمم المتحدة ; if he's sent by the UNs to do a mission, then he's a مندوب من الأمم المتحدة .
     

    Haroon

    Senior Member
    Arabic-Egypt
    I would say: أحد مندوبي الأمم المتحدة (he is one among some other delegates) --- vs مندوب الأمم المتحدة (he is only one delegate)
     

    dkarjala

    Senior Member
    English - America
    How do we differentiate between a definitive noun and an non-definitive noun in اضافة؟

    For example how would I differentiate "a delegate of the UN ..." (مندوب الأمم المتحدة) with "the delegate of the UN" ( a specific delegate)?
    The problem here is that "UN" is always definite, therefore you cannot at a possessed entity before it without also making it definite.

    In general, you can solve this problem with the preposition ل, although Cherine's suggestions, and others like them, are sometimes more common.

    For a simple example, 'my friend' is صديقي. Since 'my' is always definite, to say 'a friend of mine' you have to use the prepositional phrase to create a synthetic construct:
    صديقٌ لي

    So what you want literally, whether it's used or not, is مندوب للأمم المتّحدة

    I'll leave it to native speakers to tell whether this is مستساغ or not.
     

    Grapez

    Senior Member
    English- American/ Hebrew
    The problem here is that "UN" is always definite, therefore you cannot at a possessed entity before it without also making it definite.

    In general, you can solve this problem with the preposition ل, although Cherine's suggestions, and others like them, are sometimes more common.

    For a simple example, 'my friend' is صديقي. Since 'my' is always definite, to say 'a friend of mine' you have to use the prepositional phrase to create a synthetic construct:
    صديقٌ لي

    So what you want literally, whether it's used or not, is مندوب للأمم المتّحدة

    I'll leave it to native speakers to tell whether this is مستساغ or not.
    I am curious about this as well. I am always uncertain about when to use ل to indicate possession rather than the typical possessive ending.
     

    cherine

    Moderator
    Arabic (Egypt).
    If you say مندوب الأمم المتحدة it can only be definite. But if you want to make him "just" a delegate (as in one of many), you'll need a preposition. مندوب للأمم المتحدة is verb common, and also the other prepositions I mentioned above.
     
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