A fan of Peter/ A fan of Peter's

  • isabel.eim

    Senior Member
    Spanish-Venezuela
    Las dos son correctas. Ahora, no se si se aplican al contexto que te refieres. Indica cuál es la frase original.

    I'm a fan of Peter (Soy fanático de Peter)
    I'm a fan of Peter's (ese posesivo puede ser que es fan del auto de Peter, por ejemplo. En ese caso el sustantivo tuvo que haberse indicado en la oracíón anterior y se retoma con el posesivo sin mencionarlo nuevamente para evitar la repetición)
     

    Menocchia

    Member
    Spanish-Argentina
    Yo no estaría tan segura... Me parece que la única opción es con el posesivo. Cuando hablamos a alguien decimos "I'm a big fan of YOURS", y no "of you". Habría algún hablante nativo que nos pueda ayudar?
     

    NatashaP

    Senior Member
    Spanish - Spain
    Hay un hilo al respecto: a fan of yours/you

    You should say:
    I'm a fan of MJ's.
    Most people would say:
    I'm a fan of MJ.

    However, in your original examples "I'm a fan of you" sounds weird. I think with pronouns the rule has to be followed strictly, but with names it's more flexible.
    I'm an admirer of yours
    He's a friend of mine.
    I'm a fan of Michael Jackson('s)
    To me, this last sentence sounds better without the saxon genitive

    "He is a friend of Jack's" is accepted in current spoken speech (and used frequently). However, correctly it would be "He is a friend of Jack." "He is Jack's friend."
     
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    NatashaP

    Senior Member
    Spanish - Spain
    DOBLE GENITIVO.-
    - Es la combinación de un "OF-GENITIVE" con un "'s GENITIVE", a esto se la denomina DOUBLE GENITIVE:
    A book of John's
    A book of mine
    - Nombres con "'s inflection" tienen que ser tanto definidos como personales o propios de persona.
    - Nombres en "OF-PHARSE":
    - No pueden ser nombres propios.
    - Tienen que tener una referencia indefinida.
    - Pueden ser vistos como uno de un número sin especificar.
    Correcto Incorrecto
    A painting of Picasso's no A painting of a painter's
    Goya's Charles III no Charles III of Goya's
    A friend of John's no The wife of John's
    - Los adjetivos demostrativos se usan algunas veces con DOBLE GENITIVO para dar la idea de familiaridad, desprecio, arrogancia o un deseo a ridiculizar:
    That son of mine is always late
    The silly old hat of Mary's
    That servan of Mr Smith's is incompetent
    - Podemos usar "THE" con la "OF-PHRASE" cuando la cosa poseida ya ha sido establecida en el contexto:
    The daughter of Mr Green's (= who I have already mentioned)

    Las dos están bien
    Me temo que la construcción "A friend of Peter" NO es correcta.

    En cualquier caso, agradeceríamos la colaboración de usuarios nativos.

    Show your love: become a fan of WordReference on Facebook.

    Precisamente en esta página he encontrado la siguiente construcción. Dice "a fan of Wordreference" en lugar de "a fan of Wordreference's".

    ¿Qué opinan ustedes al respecto?
     

    Istriano

    Senior Member
    Croatian
    With first names of people: a fan of Jane's, a friend of Christina's.

    With full names: a fan of Jane Fonda, a friend of Christina Aguilera.

    With names of countries: a king of Spain.
     

    Nevermore!

    Member
    Chilean Spanish
    Si lo que quieres decir es que eres fanática de Peter, la primera es correcta.
    "I'm a fan of Peter". Si usas posesivo, quedaría como: I'm a Peter's fan.
    Si lo que quieres decir es que eres fanática de un "algo" de Peter entonces sería la segunda.
    "I'm a fan of Peter's + (Algo)" E.g: "I'm a fan of Peter's smile"
     

    RicardoElAbogado

    Senior Member
    American English
    "He is a friend of Jack's" is accepted in current spoken speech (and used frequently). However, correctly it would be "He is a friend of Jack." "He is Jack's friend."

    Since no native English speaker has offered an opinion on this, I will add mine.

    I agree with Natasha P. So, to be correct, you would either say "I am fan of Peter" or "I am one of Peter's fans."
     

    NatashaP

    Senior Member
    Spanish - Spain
    With first names of people: a fan of Jane's, a friend of Christina's.

    With full names: a fan of Jane Fonda, a friend of Christina Aguilera.

    Interesante distinción. ¿Aparece contemplada en los libros de Gramática?

    ¿Alguien podría insertar algún link donde se expliquen todas estas cuestiones referentes al doble gentivo?

    Según Thesaurus:

    Graecophile, philhellene, philhellenist - an admirer of Greece and everything Greek
     

    NatashaP

    Senior Member
    Spanish - Spain
    If you want something short that explains most of this, see bottom of the page here: Possessive Forms

    Thanks a million!

    Se escribe constantemente "an admirer of Stalin", "an admirer of Joyce". En cambio, no es correcto escribir "an admirer of Peter" (un Peter cualquiera). Es curioso.
     
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    mhp

    Senior Member
    American English
    The link that I put is somewhat terse. One use of post-genitive that is very common in English is when the determinant is this or that, instead of the indeterminate article, a: That hat of Susan’s looks mighty funny. No need to say that the construct is mostly colloquial.
     

    NatashaP

    Senior Member
    Spanish - Spain
    Gracias por la puntualización. Sigo recopilando datos. Un profesor de California ha dicho lo siguiente:

    Here is my understanding of it, from the point of view of a native speaker of AmE.

    The pronomialized versions require the possessive pronoun: of mine, of yours, of his, of hers, of ours, of theirs.

    The nominal versions can take either form: of Mike, of Mike's; of Ann, of Ann's

    [a friend of, an acquaintance, a buddy of, a chum of, a pal of
    a classmate of, a schoolmate of, a teammate of, a colleague of, an associate of
    a fan of, an admirer of
    an enemy of, an opponent of, an adversary of, a competitor of]

    [mine, yours, his, hers, ours, theirs, Mike, Mike's, Ann, Ann's]
    _______

    In the case of the nouns, a subtle distinction can be made between the two possibilities.

    The form with 's is more intimate in shading.
    A friend of Mike's means one of Mike's friends, one selected from among all of Mike's friends. The idea is that these friends belong, in some sense, to Mike -- that Mike has these friends. Mike counts this "friend of Mike's" among his friends.

    The form without the 's is cooler -- more remote -- in the impression it gives.
    A friend of Mike means a person who has friendly feelings toward Mike, but it involves Mike much less. Mike need not even know that this person has friendly feelings toward him. This is why we would say something like This organization is a friend of the poor -- never of the poor's! The poor as a group could never 'personally' choose friends.
    ___________

    Of the several relationships shown above which allow the distinction, there are some which, by their meaning, i.e., not by rules of grammar, would cause us to select the version without the 's more often than not.

    For example, one can be an admirer or fan of someone without that person even knowing that you are an admirer or fan, so the version without 's is going to be seen more frequently, thus: I am a fan of Sting. To use the alternative is much too intimate: I am a fan of Sting's, because it implies (or nearly so) that Sting personally knows you and counts you personally among his fans. For the same reason -- in the case of dead artists -- it would be very strange indeed to say such things as I am an admirer of Mozart's!

    Unfortunately, the grammar of English does not allow the distinction when the pronomial forms are used: Charles was an admirer of theirs -- never of them. A complete rephrasing would be needed if the distinction were important enough to be highlighted.


    Source: A Fan Of Yours/You?


    ...a friend of my mother's.
    She was a great friend of Lorna Cook's.


    The 's is sometimes omitted, especially in American English.
    ...a close friend of Mr Reagan.


    A Question On Double Possessives And One On The Other?


    a friend of my father's
     
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    ikaray

    Member
    Basque - northern
    Interesting, I wonder if British/Irish/Scottish/Welsh/Australian speakers would agree.
     

    The Newt

    Senior Member
    English - US
    [...]

    Unfortunately, the grammar of English does not allow the distinction when the pronomial forms are used: Charles was an admirer of theirs -- never of them. A complete rephrasing would be needed if the distinction were important enough to be highlighted.
    [...]

    I'm not sure I agree with the above, but it may depend on how one understands "admirer." If you're speaking of a romantic admirer, I would always say "an admirer of Margaret's," but if you were speaking about someone you did or didn't respect, "I'm [not] an admirer of Margaret Thatcher" seems possible.

    Also, with activities etc. we say "I'm not a fan of skiing," never "I'm not a fan of skiing's."
     

    bandini

    Senior Member
    inglés gabacho
    Since no native English speaker has offered an opinion on this, I will add mine.

    I agree with Natasha P. So, to be correct, you would either say "I am fan of Peter" or "I am one of Peter's fans."

    I agree because the "of" construction and the apostrophe after the proper noun both denote possession so it is redundant to include both.
     
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