A monkey licks a block of ice with bananas encased in it

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bonbon2023

Senior Member
Korean(south)
A monkey licks a block of ice with bananas encased in it during the Monkey Buffet Festival.
(
http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/l.../11/121129_todays_phrase_lick_your_lips.shtml)
Well, the above sentence describes a picture in the link so I can't give my context other than the source. Although the sentence is understandable for me, I'm curious in sentence style like this type.
If either 'A monkey licks a block of ice in which bananas are encased' or 'A monkey licks a block of ice bananas are encased in'(this would be more informal than the first having 'in which') is substituted for 'A monkey licks a block of ice with bananas encased in it', which distinction will you see between the original clause and either of the two?
 
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  • bonbon2023

    Senior Member
    Korean(south)
    Thank you for your quick revising.
    Then, if either 'A monkey licks a block of ice in which bananas are encased' or 'A monkey licks a block of ice bananas are encased in'(this would be more informal than the first having 'in which') is substituted for 'A monkey licks a block of ice with bananas encased in it', which distinction will you see between the original clause and the two?
     

    heypresto

    Senior Member
    English - England

    1 'A monkey licks a block of ice with bananas encased in it' :tick:

    2 'A monkey licks a block of ice in which bananas
    are encased' :tick:

    3 'A monkey licks a block of ice bananas (are) encased in' :cross:

    The distinction between numbers 2 and 3 is that number 2 is English and number 3 isn't. :)



    Cross-posted.
     

    bonbon2023

    Senior Member
    Korean(south)

    1 'A monkey licks a block of ice with bananas encased in it' :tick:

    2 'A monkey licks a block of ice in which bananas
    are encased' :tick:

    3 'A monkey licks a block of ice bananas (are) encased in' :cross:

    The distinction between numbers 2 and 3 is that number 2 is English and number 3 isn't. :)



    Cross-posted.
    Thanks, heypresto. But, that's not I really wanted to know. I understand the three structures though I made some mistakes when writing. What I really want to know is the case 'A monkey licks a block of ice with bananas encased in it' is substituted with either 'A monkey licks a block of ice in which bananas are encased' or 'A monkey licks a block of ice bananas are encased in'. It has something to do with nuance.


     

    Myridon

    Senior Member
    English - US
    substituted with either 'A monkey licks a block of ice in which bananas are encased' or 'A monkey licks a block of ice bananas are encased in'.
    'A monkey licks a block of ice bananas are encased in'. This is still: :cross:
    "A monkey licks a block of ice in which bananas are encased." becomes
    "A monkey licks a block of ice which bananas are encased in."
    You shouldn't drop the "which" part of the "in which". Even if you could, "ice bananas" could be made by an ice sculptor so it's potentially confusing.
     

    bonbon2023

    Senior Member
    Korean(south)
    'A monkey licks a block of ice bananas are encased in'. This is still: :cross:
    You shouldn't drop the "which" part of the "in which". Even if you could, "ice bananas" could be made by an ice sculptor so it's potentially confusing.
    'ice banana'! :)
    Then, if I don't want to use 'which' should the sentence be set off by a comma like the following? "A monkey licks a block of ice, bananas are encased in."
    Or still, there should be 'which'?
     

    heypresto

    Senior Member
    English - England
    I agree with Myridon.

    There is a subtle difference between 'A monkey licks a block of ice bananas are encased in' and the example you give: 'This is the bedroom (that) he was murdered in.' (You could omit the 'that' and it would still make sense).

    The difference is the article before 'block of ice' and 'bedroom' respectively.

    If you say
    'A monkey licks the block of ice bananas are encased in' (like the bedroom), it would now make more sense. It still sounds a bit strange, and still contains the potential confusion Myridon refers to, but, I believe, it is a little less confusing, and clearer than your first version.
     

    ewie

    Senior Member
    English English
    :confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:
    A monkey licks a block of ice bananas are encased in
    sounds okay to me, in very informal speech.

    <testing>
    That's the ship I'm going to America on
    That's the wagon the refugees arrived in
    That's the club my brother's in
    That's the blacklist I'm included on

    :confused: all these sound fine to me, in very informal speech.
     

    lucas-sp

    Senior Member
    English - Californian
    Like ewie, I don't see anything wrong with "a block of ice bananas are encased in." The problem is that it is a bit confusing, so in any kind of writing I would expect to see it revised right away.

    But I'm confused about why we're discussing relative clauses at all, and these relative clauses in particular. The original sentence was:

    "a block of ice with bananas encased in it"

    If I had to translate that into a relative clause I would choose:

    "a block of ice which has bananas encased in it"

    In other words, I don't really feel that "encased" is a verb. It feels much more like an adjective describing the bananas.

    Just to bring out another example:

    "I love those oatmeal cookies with M&M's in them"

    This could be "I love those oatmeal cookies that have M&M's in them" but not "I love those oatmeal cookies in which M&M's are." In other words, the "encased" is a bit of a distraction.
     

    Loob

    Senior Member
    English UK
    Like ewie and lucas, I don't see a grammatical problem with dropping the relative pronoun in "a block of ice [which/that] bananas are encased in." Maybe the reason people are rejecting it is that "encased" is unlikely in informal speech?
     

    Forero

    Senior Member
    In the original sentence, "encased" expresses the static relationship between the bananas and the block of ice, but to me "a block of ice bananas are encased in" is likely to mean "a block of ice somebody encases bananas in". A which between ice and bananas separates licks and are enough to help me see the static meaning of are as well as preventing me from (temporarily) reading "ice bananas" as a unit.
     

    bonbon2023

    Senior Member
    Korean(south)
    <testing>
    That's the ship I'm going to America on
    That's the wagon the refugees arrived in
    That's the club my brother's in
    That's the blacklist I'm included on

    :confused: all these sound fine to me, in very informal speech.
    Thanks for many nice examples. :)


    The original sentence was: "a block of ice with bananas encased in it"

    If I had to translate that into a relative clause I would choose: "a block of ice which has bananas encased in it"

    Just to bring out another example:
    "I love those oatmeal cookies with M&M's in them"

    This could be "I love those oatmeal cookies that have M&M's in them" but not "I love those oatmeal cookies in which M&M's are." In other words, the "encased" is a bit of a distraction.
    Thanks for your new relative clause(or adjective clause) structure and another sentence having with-prepositional phrase in comparison with preposition+relative clause. :)

    I don't see a grammatical problem with dropping the relative pronoun in "a block of ice [which/that] bananas are encased in." Maybe the reason people are rejecting it is that "encased" is unlikely in informal speech?
    Thanks for your input. :)

    In the original sentence, "encased" expresses the static relationship between the bananas and the block of ice, but to me "a block of ice bananas are encased in" is likely to mean "a block of ice somebody encases bananas in". A which between ice and bananas separates licks and are enough to help me see the static meaning of are as well as preventing me from (temporarily) reading "ice bananas" as a unit.
    Thank you. I understand the 'a block of ice bananas are encased in' can suggest 'a block of ice-bananas are encased in' apart from 'a block of ice having bananas encased in it.':)
     
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