a more or less high number of printed pages

[raymondaliasapollyon]

Hi,

If we say a book is "a more or less high number of printed pages bound together," what does "more or less" mean?
Does it mean "almost"?

I'd appreciate your help.

 

[Cagey]

Where did you see this?
It'a a curious description.

 

[raymondaliasapollyon]

Where did you see this?
It'a a curious description.

A German speaker suggested it as a translation of a German phrase.

 

[Andygc]

It makes no sense in English.

 

[theunknownsarch]

"more or less" it's used to talk about an aproximation.

So i don't really think the word "high" should be there.

 

[grassy]

Hi,

If we say a book is "a more or less high number of printed pages bound together," what does "more or less" mean?
Does it mean "almost"?

I'd appreciate your help.

Hi Ray,

The problem with this definition is that "more or less" could only modify "high" but it doesn't collocate with "high" in the way that "reasonably" would, for example.

I'd be skeptical about this definition anyway: for instance, is a printed screenplay a book?

 

[raymondaliasapollyon]

It makes no sense in English.

Is the following okay?

The book consists of more than many, or less than many, printed pages bound together.

I'm trying to find out if there's a ready English equivalent for a German phrase.

 

[grassy]

The book consists of more than many, or less than many, printed pages bound together.

No, that sounds awful. "More than many" and "less than many" don't mean anything.

 

[raymondaliasapollyon]

No, that sounds awful. "More than many" and "less than many" don't mean anything.

What if "many" is used metalinguistically, perhaps with quotation marks or italics?

The book consists of more than "many," or less than "many," printed pages bound together.

 

[Wordy McWordface]

That doesn't work, either. It still doesn't make any sense.

 

[theunknownsarch]

What if "many" is used metalinguistically, perhaps with quotation marks or italics?

The book consists of more than "many," or less than "many," printed pages bound together.

No, sometimes it's literally impossible to translate from one language to another in an exact manner, as it would make no sense in the language your translating that sentence to.

 

[raymondaliasapollyon]

That doesn't work either. None of this makes any sense.

How about the following?

Few is less than many or most.

 

[theunknownsarch]

How about the following?

Few is less than many or most.

few is not less than many or most, actually , it's the contrary. So that sentence would not make any sense either.

 

[raymondaliasapollyon]

few is not less than many or most, actually , it's the contrary. So that sentence would not make any sense either.

It's actually from 'Couple,' 'Few,' and 'Several': The (Mostly) Definitive Guide

< Off-topic comment removed. Cagey, moderator >

 

[heypresto]

How about the following?

Few is less than many or most.

What are you trying to say here? You can't compare 'few' and 'most'.

 

[raymondaliasapollyon]

What are you trying to say here? You can't compare 'few' and 'most'.

Have you checked out the Merriam-Webster page?

 

[grassy]

You can't compare 'few' and 'most'.

Or if you can, it would require an elaborate context, such explaining a grammatical point to a learner.

Have you checked out the Merriam-Webster's page?

You can't possibly expect us to read that whole article. Please summarize the information that's relevant to your question.

 

[Andygc]

Your question is about "more or less high". That is nonsense in English. The meanings of few, many and most are completely irrelevant to your question.

If we say a book is "a more or less high number of printed pages bound together,"

If we say that, we would be using a truly ridiculous definition of "book". There are thousands of books that were never printed.

A German speaker suggested it as a translation of a German phrase.

This is not a translation forum.

 

[raymondaliasapollyon]

Your question is about "more or less high". That is nonsense in English. The meanings of few, many and most are completely irrelevant to your question.

Relevant in the sense that the issue might involve metalinguistic use.

If we say that, we would be using a truly ridiculous definition of "book". There are thousands of books that were never printed.

That is really irrelevant, as the issue is not about whether or not a book should be defined that way.

 

[Andygc]

I would be fascinated if you could explain how the metalinguistic use of few, many and most could make "a more or less high number of printed pages bound together" any less nonsensical.

You are asking a question about an erroneous translation of German into English and seem to wish, somehow, to persuade English speakers that the translation is actually perfectly good English. It is not. You could, of course, take the original German and the strange translation to a German/English forum to see what German/English bilingual speakers make of it.

 

[Glasguensis]

I have seen “a more or less large number”, meaning that the number is variable but relatively large. It doesn’t work with high or many. To me this is entirely to do with idiom and has nothing to do with metalinguistics. As you have seen, most native speakers would reject using “more or less” in this way, so I’d recommend that learners avoid it.

 

[bearded]

For those who may be interested: the same questioner has started a similar discussion in the German forum:
mehr oder minder viele
Apparently, an idiom corresponding to ''a more or less large number of..'' does really exist in German.

 

[Andygc]

For those who may be interested: the same questioner has started a similar discussion in the German forum:
mehr oder minder viele
Apparently, an idiom corresponding to ''a more or less large number of..'' does really exist in German.

But as Glasguensis said:

I have seen “a more or less large number”, meaning that the number is variable but relatively large. It doesn’t work with high or many.

and this thread asked about high.

 

[raymondaliasapollyon]

I would be fascinated if you could explain how the metalinguistic use of few, many and most could make "a more or less high number of printed pages bound together" any less nonsensical.

I'm not implying "a more or less high number of..." is sensical, nor am I taking it as an example of the metalinguistic function.
I was referring to "more than 'many,' or less than 'many'" as a metalinguistic use.

A metalanguage is a (form of) language used to discuss language. The Merriam-Webster sentence is one example.

You are asking a question about an erroneous translation of German into English and seem to wish, somehow, to persuade English speakers that the translation is actually perfectly good English. It is not. You could, of course, take the original German and the strange translation to a German/English forum to see what German/English bilingual speakers make of it.

No, I'm trying to explore a possibility exhaustively.

 

[raymondaliasapollyon]

For those who may be interested: the same questioner has started a similar discussion in the German forum:
mehr oder minder viele
Apparently, an idiom corresponding to ''a more or less large number of..'' does really exist in German.

The (literal) English equivalent is actually "more or less many," which is incorrect in English.

 

[raymondaliasapollyon]

I have seen “a more or less large number”, meaning that the number is variable but relatively large. It doesn’t work with high or many. To me this is entirely to do with idiom and has nothing to do with metalinguistics. As you have seen, most native speakers would reject using “more or less” in this way, so I’d recommend that learners avoid it.

Could “a more or less large number” be used when the speaker doesn't know what quantity "many" means to other people?

 

[Glasguensis]

It can only be used that way, since we have no way of knowing what quantity « many » implies to other people.

 

[raymondaliasapollyon]

It can only be used that way, since we have no way of knowing what quantity « many » implies to other people.

Then this usage presupposes a measure of metalinguistic awareness in that the speaker would have to know his or her conception of "many" might not coincide with others' and the use of the word "many" is speaker-dependent.

 

[heypresto]

One problem here is that 'more or less' means 'roughly' or 'about' or 'to some extent' or 'somewhat'. That's the meaning we immediately see when we see 'more or less' in a sentence. It rarely, if ever, means 'More (of X) or less (of X).

So you need to say something like "Does 'few' imply more than or less than 'many'?"

 

[Glasguensis]

It would be ridiculous to presume metalinguistic awareness when 99% of the population have never heard of it.

 

[raymondaliasapollyon]

It would be ridiculous to presume metalinguistic awareness when 99% of the population have never heard of it.

Well, I'd say it'd be ridiculous to presume that a phenomenon does not exist just because 99% of the population have never heard of it.

 

[raymondaliasapollyon]

So you need to say something like "Does 'few' imply more than or less than 'many'?"

Which sentence are you referring or responding to?

 

[lingobingo]

If we say a book is "a more or less high number of printed pages bound together," what does "more or less" mean?
Does it mean "almost"?

If you’d phrased this as if we said that, would it mean almost, then the answer would be yes. But in practice, as has been made clear, native English speakers would not express it that way because it’s unidiomatic. What they might very well say, though, is:

A book is a certain number of printed pages bound together.​

 

[heypresto]

Which sentence are you referring or responding to?

I was offering an example of a sentence which uses 'more' and 'less' in a relationship similar to 'more or less.' But never mind. Just note the first part of that post.

 

[Glasguensis]

Well, I'd say it'd be ridiculous to presume that a phenomenon does not exist just because 99% of the population have never heard of it.

Metalinguistic awareness means knowledge of a technical jargon. Whether people know this jargon is in fact central to the awareness.

 

[Roxxxannne]

Hi,

If we say a book is "a more or less high number of printed pages bound together," what does "more or less" mean?
Does it mean "almost"?

I'd appreciate your help.

No, "more or less" does not mean "almost." It makes no sense to say "a book is an almost high number of printed pages...".

 

[PaulQ]

I was referring to "more than 'many,' or less than 'many'" as a metalinguistic use.

If I understand "metalinguistic use" as you intend it, then

A: "Were there many there?"
B: "Many"! There were more than "many" - the whole place was heaving - you could hardly breathe!" - Note the punctuation.

is correct.

However, I remind myself that your question was

If we say a book is "a more or less high number of printed pages bound together,"

If we say that very often,we would find ourselves in a psychiatric hospital or being diagnosed with a brain haemorrhage: It defies all logic.

 

[Cagey]

The thread is closed.

The discussion has drifted from the specific question laid out in the first post and is making no progress.

The OP is invited to start a new thread in the appropriate forum, clearly explaining the question that currently concerns him in the first post of the new thread.

Cagey, moderator