A pena di decadenza

Discussion in 'Italian-English' started by Petr, May 28, 2005.

  1. Petr Senior Member

    What does "a pena di decadenza" in the sentence "Eventuali reclami per ammanchi o avarie apparenti dall'esame esterno dei colli contenenti le Merci debbono venire elevati a pena decadenza all'atto dei ricevimento" mean?
  2. steweboy

    steweboy New Member

    Italy, Italian
    It means that if you have to present any possible claim as soon as you receive the goods; if you fail to do so, your claims will automatically considered as "null and void".
  3. lsp

    lsp Senior Member

    US, English
    That's the sense of it, but it's a little misleading, since the underlined words are "a pena di deadenza" and "as soon as" which are not translations of each other. I'm curious if a more literal translation would be : Claims for shortage or damages apparent from exterior examination of package contents must be expedited to the point of receipt or risk forfeiture.
  4. steweboy

    steweboy New Member

    Italy, Italian
    Yeah, I completely agree with you. I only underlines as soon as in order to enhance its importance: if the controls aren't performed AS SOON AS the goods have been delivered, any future claims and/or complaint will be considered null and void. Of course "a pena di decadenza" has not been translated in "as soon as"; your definition of risk failure finds me 100% with you.

  5. pbecerra New Member

    Buenos Aires
    Argentina - Español

    I'm trying to understand what does mean "pena" in the following context:

    "Il presupposto da cui parte ogni ragionamento consiste in un unico concetto: non basta "conoscere" i bisogni dei consumatori, ma è necessario anticiparne i desideri, pena l'appiattimento dell'offerta in un'unica grande dimensione che non permette reali differenze d'identità tra i prodotti, rendendo difficile la ricerca del vantaggio competitivo. "

    I have found it on the dictionary but I can't really link this results to the phrase. Could someone help me?

    I will be very grateful.


    Paulina Becerra
  6. Manuel_M Senior Member

    the penalty for which would be
  7. pbecerra New Member

    Buenos Aires
    Argentina - Español
    Thanks for your quick answer Manuel!

    I still have some troubles... It is correct if I say:

    "The presupposition that each reasoning parts from, consist in a single concept: it is not enough to "know" consumer's needs, but it is necessary to anticipate on their desires, to avoid the flattening of offers in a big unique dimention that does not alow real identity differences on products, making hard to search for competitive advance"

    thanks again...

  8. moodywop Banned

    Southern Italy
    Italian - Italy
    I'm sure the native speakers of English will help you improve your translation stylistically.

    I just wanted to point out that parts from should be is based on.

    I'm not sure you can say anticipate on. Maybe a simple foresee will do. Although the full meaning of anticipare here is foresee customers' needs and act accordingly.
  9. pbecerra New Member

    Buenos Aires
    Argentina - Español
    But, in this case, could I use "to avoid" as an interpretation of "pena"??

    I really appreciate your suggestions. I also agree that the translation has lots of style issues, but in this case I'm just trying to figure out this particular word...


  10. Manuel_M Senior Member

    Another way of translating pena could be this:

    The basic premise of any argument is this single concept: It's not enough to know consumers' needs, but one must predict their wishes. Failure to do this would result in a flattening of supply in one big dimension which would not allow any real differences of identity between products, thus hindering the search for a competitive advantage.
  11. moodywop Banned

    Southern Italy
    Italian - Italy
    Sorry! I didn't say anything about to avoid because I thought it was a good translation. In this context pena means not doing so will/would lead to but (in order)to avoid is nice and concise and conveys the same meaning:)

    Actually you asked a very good question. This use of pena must be confusing for learners of Italian

    EDIT Manuel, you came up with a perfect translation of "pena"!
  12. ElaineG

    ElaineG Senior Member

    Brooklyn NY
    Well, it's kind of like our locution "on pain of", but we don't use it that often, and usually only with "death" as the possible consequence.

    -- (serious): "He was banished to a distant land and forbidden to return on pain of death."

    -- (joking): "I told him not to tell anyone about the surprise party on pain of death."
  13. pbecerra New Member

    Buenos Aires
    Argentina - Español
    Thank you both very much!!!

    I think I may have got it!!!

    Best wishes for all...


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