a place where all the people standing there were...

kansi

Senior Member
japanese
Can we use there in the relative clause whose relative pronoun is some place when the "there" means the "some place"?

I've just come up with this sentence.

I ended up geting to a place where all the people standing there were pointing at something in the sky, which I didn't know what was.

there would be other mistakes but I want to know especially if the "there" in the relative clause is grammartically wrong or not and how it's wrong if so.

Thank you very much in advance.
 
  • Victoria77

    Member
    English
    As you've correctly said, there are other errors in the sentence, but your use of 'there' reads just find.
     

    lingobingo

    Senior Member
    English - England
    Yes, you can. But note that where in that usage is usually described as a relative adverb, not a relative pronoun.
     

    kansi

    Senior Member
    japanese
    As you've correctly said, there are other errors in the sentence, but your use of 'there' reads just find.
    Yes, you can. But note that where in that usage is usually described as a relative adverb, not a relative pronoun.
    Thank you so much!

    so it's fine how I use the ''there'' there.
    Then I've got another quetion about the relative clause.
    I was taught that a sentense with the relative clause usually is made up with maltiple sentenses and to find the same nouns to replace one of them with a relative pronoun or adverse.

    For example,
    *I also want to visit that conutry (which) a teacher in the math class today told that he had visited in his 20s.
    The sentense above is basically made up with the next two sentenses , one of the nouns red-colored whose mean the same thing was replaced with the relative pronoun ''which'' and it was put after the left noun.
    1.I also want to visit that country.
    2.A teacher a teacher in the math class today told that he had visited a (certain) country in his 20s.

    Doing the told way to the sentense in my original quetion, it would be like..
    *I ended up geting to a place where all the people standing there were pointing at something in the sky, which I didn't know what was.
    This is basically made of the next two sentenses and the red-colored nouns mean the same.
    1.I ended up geting to a place.
    2.All the people standing there were pointing at something in the sky, which I didn't know what was.

    So it should be like, not using there,...
    *I ended up geting to a place where all the people standing where were pointing at something in the sky, which I didn't know what was.
    *I ended up geting to a place where all the people standing at which were pointing at something in the sky, which I didn't know what was.
    *I ended up geting to a place all the people standing where were pointing at something in the sky, which I didn't know what was.

    Could you explain something about it?
     

    london calling

    Senior Member
    UK English
    *I ended up geting getting to a place where all the people standing (there) where were pointing at something in the sky, which I didn't know what was.
    *I ended upgeting getting to a place where all the people standing (there) at which were pointing at something in the sky, which I didn't know what was.
    *I ended up geting getting to a place where all the people standing (there) where were pointing at something in the sky, which I didn't know what was.

    Could you explain something about it?
    ..which I didn't know what it was is incorrect, but we are not allowed to proofread here, sorry.
     

    kansi

    Senior Member
    japanese
    ..which I didn't know what it was is incorrect, but we are not allowed to proofread here, sorry.
    thank you so much!

    well we should replace "there" with the relative adverse or
    noun, based on the rules of the relative clause?

    I want to know especially if I
    need to replace the "there" or not and how it is so.
    (of cource happy if you correct other things.)
     

    london calling

    Senior Member
    UK English
    As you will see from my post 4 I have put 'there' in brackets: that means it isn't necessary and could be left out of the sentences (either that or you say '..all the people there..', if it makes no difference if they are sitting or standing).

    I can't correct any other mistakes: as I said, we aren't allowed to proofread.
     

    kansi

    Senior Member
    japanese
    As you will see from my post 4 I have put 'there' in brackets: that means it isn't necessary and could be left out of the sentences (either that or you say '..all the people there..', if it makes no difference if they are sitting or standing).

    I can't correct any other mistakes: as I said, we aren't allowed to proofread.
    Thank you!
    But I just feel strange the placing ''there'' there. Something I understand about the relative clause is probably wrong.I mean placing ''there'' there I feel like doing the same thing to putting the noun which a relative pronoun means, in the the relative clause ; for example, I went to a country which I wanted to go to the country (this shouldn't be here) for a long time.

    And if I want to make the ''there'' modfiy ''all the people standing'', then should we put the ''where'' after ''standing''?
     
    Last edited:

    lingobingo

    Senior Member
    English - England
    Without reading the other posts in this thread, I would just say that I don’t think the sentence works idiomatically without the addition of “there” (but it would also read okay with “standing” deleted).

    I ended up in a place where all the people [who were] standing there were pointing at something in the sky… :tick:

    I ended up in a place where all the people standing were pointing at something in the sky… :thumbsdown::thumbsdown:
    (This heavily implies all the people who were standing rather than sitting)

    I ended up in a place where all the people were pointing at something in the sky… :tick:
     

    kansi

    Senior Member
    japanese
    Without reading the other posts in this thread, I would just say that I don’t think the sentence works idiomatically without the addition of “there” (but it would also read okay with “standing” deleted).

    I ended up in a place where all the people [who were] standing there were pointing at something in the sky… :tick:

    I ended up in a place where all the people standing were pointing at something in the sky… :thumbsdown::thumbsdown:
    (This heavily implies all the people who were standing rather than sitting)

    I ended up in a place where all the people were pointing at something in the sky… :tick:
    thank you again!

    I mean that that ''there'' isn't the antecedent of the ''where''?If so, it's like putting the antecedent of the relative pronoun in the relative clause, in the same relative clause?

    this is my main concern here..
     

    lingobingo

    Senior Member
    English - England
    How could there possibly be the antecedent of where when it doesn’t even precede it? The antecedent of “where” is “a place”. And the adverb “there”, in the relative clause that follows, means “in that place”.
     

    kansi

    Senior Member
    japanese
    How could there possibly be the antecedent of where when it doesn’t even precede it? The antecedent of “where” is “a place”. And the adverb “there”, in the relative clause that follows, means “in that place”.
    Thank you!

    Oh it's because ''there'' means ''in that place'' ;There is a ''in'' in it so that's why it's not the antecedent of where??
     

    lingobingo

    Senior Member
    English - England
    By definition, an antecedent always comes before the later word/phrase in a sentence that refers back to it.

    In your sentence, both where and there refer back to the place already mentioned.

    I ended up getting to a place where (= in which) all the people standing there (= in/at that place) were pointing at something…
     

    kansi

    Senior Member
    japanese
    By definition, an antecedent always comes before the later word/phrase in a sentence that refers back to it.

    In your sentence, both where and there refer back to the place already mentioned.

    I ended up getting to a place where (= in which) all the people standing there (= in/at that place) were pointing at something…
    Thank you for replying many times!

    So this is again though hope it doesn't annoy you..

    Then I feel like doing such a mistake as;

    I also want to visit that conutry (which) a teacher in the math class today told that he had visited the country in his 20s.

    But the examaple sentense in the last reply is different because ''there ''is equalled to ''in the place'' ,but not ''the place''?
     

    london calling

    Senior Member
    UK English
    Without reading the other posts in this thread, I would just say that I don’t think the sentence works idiomatically without the addition of “there” (but it would also read okay with “standing” deleted).
    Which is what I meant.:)

    As you will see from my post 4 I have put 'there' in brackets: that means it isn't necessary and could be left out of the sentences (either that or you say '..all the people there..', if it makes no difference if they are sitting or standing).
     
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