a real beard that that puts them a step above

VicNicSor

Senior Member
Russian
But in the stratified Santa community, you may not be completely accepted within the Santa society elite.
MANNING: It's seems to me like some of the other real-bearded guys, you know, really feel like by having a real beard that that puts them a step above the designer-bearded Santas, which I don't agree with.

http://ketr.org/post/its-not-jolly-its-job-pro-santas-say-its-more-just-beard

I believe that the first 'that' is a conjunction and the second 'that' is a pronoun. And that the sentence is a little awkward (it's an interview)
Maybe that should look like:
some of the other real-bearded guys, you know, really feel like by having a real beard they put themselves a step above the designer-bearded Santas
or
some of the other real-bearded guys, you know, really feel like having
(a gerund) a real beard puts them a step above the designer-bearded Santas
And 'feel like' doesn't mean 'to want to do or have' here, but is two different words

Am I right?

Thank you.
 
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  • MuttQuad

    Senior Member
    English - AmE
    >> really feel like by having a real beard that that puts them a step above the designer-bearded Santas, which I don't agree with.<<

    Make life easy for yourself:
    * feel like having a real beard puts them a step above...

    * feel like by having a real beard that puts them a step above...



     

    Loob

    Senior Member
    English UK
    I agree that the original sentence is awkward, VikNikSor.

    I think that if you wanted to retain "that...that", the better option would be It seems to me like some of the other real-bearded guys, you know, really feel like that by having a real beard that puts them a step above the designer-bearded Santas.
     

    Myridon

    Senior Member
    English - US
    I don't understand that:confused:
    Where do you put the subject? In my version (feel like by having a real beard they put themselves a step above) the subject is they.
    The second "that" which is the subject of "puts them a step above the designer-bearded Santas" is "having a real beard" not "they".
     

    VicNicSor

    Senior Member
    Russian
    The second "that" which is the subject of "puts them a step above the designer-bearded Santas" is "having a real beard" not "they".
    real-bearded guys, you know, really feel like that by having a real beard that puts them a step above the designer-bearded Santas.
    I'm puzzled:)
    I believe that if we use 'by having', the second "that" can't be the subject that refers to "having a real beard", because 'having' has to do with 'them' (real-bearded guys). If we assume that the second 'that' is the subject, then it looks like that is the second 'that' that has beard, not guys. Am I wrong?
     
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    AutumnOwl

    Senior Member
    -
    Swedish
    really feel like by having a real beard that that (fact) puts them a step above the designer-bearded Santas,
    I don't know if I'm right, but if I translate the sentence into Swedish, the second that would mean the fact that they have a real beard, not "the guys".
     
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    Nipnip

    Senior Member
    Español
    It's seems to me like some of the other real-bearded guys, you know, really feel like by having a real beard that that puts them a step above
    Thank you.
    They feel that that puts them a step above.

    First that: conjunction.
    Second that: pronoun, easily replaced by the other pronoun "it".

    They feel that it puts them a step above.

    "It" obviously refers to "having a real beard". They feel that it (having a real beard) puts them a step above.
     

    VicNicSor

    Senior Member
    Russian
    Yes, I know:), but the problem is:
    If something is done by a person or thing, that person or thing does it.
    (Collins)
    Someone or something does something by something.
    guys put themselves a step above by having a real beard (how I believe it should be)
    not
    "the second that" (
    or "having a real beard") puts guys a step above by having a real beard. That is, "the second that" (or "having a real beard") has beard.:)
     
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    Nipnip

    Senior Member
    Español
    Ok, but you are rephrasing to accomodate your thooughts. The original sentence, at least what you posted originallt, says that it is the beard that makes them feel that way.

    I don't think I follow when you say "I believe it should be", the texts says what it intends to say, your construction is also good but that's not what the interview says, yours says something different and not what the interviewee wanted to express.

    The interviwee clearly says that it (having a beard) is what makes the guys feel a step above not that they (they guys themselves out of sheer arrogance) feel superior just like it.

    There is no contradiction with the Collins Dictionary. Because it is the beard that makes the guys feel a step above, in other words "the real beard" is the thing or person that does it.
     

    VicNicSor

    Senior Member
    Russian
    Because it is the beard that makes the guys feel a step above, in other words "the real beard" is the thing or person that does it.
    "having a real beard" is the thing or person that does it by what? By having a real beard (as the original sentence says), which means that 'having a real beard' has beard. That's how I see all that.:confused:
     

    Nipnip

    Senior Member
    Español
    No, no, no.

    Arising a sense of superiority is done/provoked/caused (on the men) by the beard, the real beard. Or let's change it to the active:
    The real beard makes the men feel superior.

    It makes them feel superior.

    I am sure someone who knows things about direct and indirect objects would be helpful here.
     

    VicNicSor

    Senior Member
    Russian
    Maybe you don't quite understand me. I've wanted to say that I perfectly see the meaning of the original sentence and what the speaker had in mind. The question is the grammatical construction only.
     

    AutumnOwl

    Senior Member
    -
    Swedish
    "having a real beard" is the thing or person that does it by what? By having a real beard (as the original sentence says), which means that 'having a real beard' has beard. That's how I see all that.:confused:
    Is it "having a real beard" or "feel like by having a real beard" that puts them above those "the designer-bearded Santas"? Their "feel like" is that they know that their beards are real, and it's their knowledge of that, and not the beard in itself, which the second "that" means, and it's that knowledge that puts them above the others.
    If something is done by a person or thing, that person or thing does it.
    Something done = the "feel like by having a real beard"
     
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    VicNicSor

    Senior Member
    Russian
    The original sentence says quite clearly that 'having a real beard' puts them above .... Quote: feel like by having a real beard that that puts them
    (or as Loob and MuttQuad suguested: "feel like that by having a real beard that puts them a step above")
    But it seems that native speakers have lost interest in this issue, so maybe it will be better to drop the subject:)

    Thank you all.
     
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    MuttQuad

    Senior Member
    English - AmE
    I don't understand that:confused:
    Where do you put the subject? In my version (feel like by having a real beard they put themselves a step above) the subject is they.
    The subject in your original sentence is "some of the other real-bearded guys."


    So, the complete phrasing becomes: "some of the other real-bearded guys feel like by having a real beard that puts them a step above...
     

    Keith Bradford

    Senior Member
    English (Midlands UK)
    I'm coming to this late, and my first reaction is that you're trying to understand/explain a piece of English which doesn't merit it. This is conversation, and sloppy conversation at that. It has many errors of style and grammar, and the best thing is to forget it, and concentrate on what the correct version would be. Without going into proofreading, I suggest two constructions that might do:

    ...some of the other real-bearded guys, you know, really feel that having a real beard puts them a step above the designer-bearded Santas...

    Alternatively:

    ...some of the other real-bearded guys, you know, really feel that by having a real beard they are put a step above the designer-bearded Santas...
     

    VicNicSor

    Senior Member
    Russian
    Thank you!
    feel that by having a real beard that puts them a step above
    feel that by having a real beard they are put a step above

    These two sentences are probably correct, and, I don't know why, but the second one I like more...
     
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