A reasonable parent

capercailzie

Member
ENGLAND, ENGLISH
Ich möchte den folgenden Satz übersetzen:

the Court reluctantly assumes the role of the "judicial reasonable parent". Im Wörterbuch steht nur Eltern als Plural?

Das Gericht übernimmt widerwillig die Rolle des/der gerichtlich einsichtigem/en ?????? Gibt es ein Wort oder muss ich einfach " Partner", das eigentlich nicht dieselbe Bedeutung hat, benutzen? Danke.
 
  • Liam Lew's

    Senior Member
    Du könntest das Wort "Elter" benutzen. Das Wort ist meiner Erfahrung nach aber eher ungebräuchlich und ich wäre überrascht es zu hören.

    Anmerkung der Moderatorin: Die Frage über "Elter" ist in diesen neuen Thread abgespalten worden.
     
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    ger4

    Senior Member
    German
    re: singular form of "Eltern":

    "Elternteil" - ("-teil" meaning "part"); this expression is often used to point out that only one of the two parents is meant. "Elter" does exist but it's hardly ever used


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    re: judicial reasonable parent:

    "Erziehungsberechtigte(r)"
    - the person or one of the persons legally entitled to bring up the child in question. As "Erziehungsberechtigter" is a noun, it might correspondent to "judicial reasonable parent". My suggestion "Elternteil" is not needed here as the term includes the following information:

    (1) Erziehung - the process of bringing up a child
    (2) berechtigt - legally entitled
    (3) -e/-er - these endings are attached to indicate the fact that the term describes a person (-e feminine, -er masculine)


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    Suggestion:

    (please check the links below first; this is just a suggestion for a possible translation)

    Das Gericht übernimmt (widerwillig) (1) die Rolle des Erziehungsberechtigten (2)

    (1) there might still be more accurate translations for "reluctantly"
    (2) "des Erziehungsberechtigten" is the masculine genitive singular form of "der Erziehungsberichte". <> The feminine gen. sing. would be "der Erziehungsberechtigten".


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    http://www.linguee.de/deutsch-englisch/uebersetzung/erziehungsberechtigter.html
    http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erziehungsberechtigter_(Deutschland)
    https://www.openthesaurus.de/synonyme/edit/1263


     
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    capercailzie

    Member
    ENGLAND, ENGLISH
    Many thanks to both for your prompt replies. And thank you Holger 2014 for all the trouble you have gone to and for all the links. Greatly appreciated, vielen Dank!
     

    Glockenblume

    Senior Member
    Deutsch (Hochdeutsch und "Frängisch")
    Aber ien Erzeihungsberchtigter muss nicht zwangsläufig ein Elternteil sein. Es kann auch jemand anderes sein, dem durch Gerichtsbeschluss diese Rolle übertragen worden ist.
     

    ger4

    Senior Member
    German
    Aber ien Erzeihungsberchtigter muss nicht zwangsläufig ein Elternteil sein. Es kann auch jemand anderes sein, dem durch Gerichtsbeschluss diese Rolle übertragen worden ist.
    So wie ich es verstanden habe, geht es in diesem Fall auch ziemlich genau um dieses Thema. Im zitierten englischen Text heißt es "...assumes the role of judicial reasonable parent", d.h. also in etwa "... nimmt die Rolle des 'reasonable (1) parent (2)' an".

    Dabei habe ich (2) zunächst mit "Elternteil" übersetzt, ohne dabei allerdings (1) zu berücksichtigen. Da (1) (also 'reasonable') je nach Zusammenhang vollkommen unterschiedlich übersetzt werden kann, habe ich versucht, eine ungefähre Entsprechung für {(1)+(2)} zu finden - und dachte dabei an den Begriff "Erziehungsberechtigte(r)".

    Um eine möglichst genaue Definition des Begriffs "judicial reasonable parent" zu finden, suche ich noch nach britischen Textstellen (da der OP ja ausdrücklich angibt, dass er aus Großbritannien stammt), was überraschend schwierig ist - der Begriff scheint eher in den USA und Kanada gebräuchlich zu sein; häufig werden ähnliche Begriffe in Nordamerika ja völlig unterschiedlich gebraucht als in Großbritannien...

    "Erziehungsberechtigter" schien mir daher vorläufig die "am wenigsten unzutreffende" Übersetzung zu sein, die ich finden konnte, wobei "Erziehungsberechtigter" natürlich normalerweise eher mit "legal guardian" übersetzt wird...
     
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    ger4

    Senior Member
    German
    @ capercailzie:

    I think we haven't managed to answer your question yet. The term I suggested, 'Erziehungsberechtigter', is normally translated as 'legal guardian'. My guess was 'judicial reasonable parent' might be a way to express the concept of 'the person most likely to be defined as a legal guardian for the purpose of the court proceedings'. - If this makes any sense my suggestion 'Erziehungsberechtigter' (~ 'legal guardian') would possibly be a rough equivalent here but it would not take into account the (possibly) temporal nature of the original term, as far as I understand.

    ----
    @ anyone who would like to help out:

    I checked out a couple of online 'legalese' dictionaries and couldn't find the term 'judicial reasonable parent' (as a whole) there - not even there... So I guess it might be a good idea to go 'back to basics' and just look at the three words the expression consists of:

    (1) judicial ~ (in this context): pre-court? ~ vorgerichtlich?
    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/judicial?show=0&t=1414519584

    (2) reasonable ~ (in this context): possessing sound judgement ~ (eine Person), die im Stande ist, etwas (objektiv? präzise?) zu beurteilen
    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/reasonable

    (1) + (2) judicial reasonable ~ without a reasonable doubt ~ glaubhaft?*
    http://dictionary.law.com/Default.aspx?typed=judicial reasonable&type=1

    (3) parent: on its own this can easily be translated as 'Elternteil' (so, at least no problems here...)

    ----
    * 'glaubhaft' seems to be used as a legal term - as in 'glaubhafter Zeuge' - but (???) 'glaubhafter Erziehungsberechtigter' (???)
     
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    ger4

    Senior Member
    German
    I've found a very similar phrase to the one mentioned by the OP, "embedded" in a broader context here:

    Source: http://www.cflp.co.uk/children-law-what-is-welfare/ Lord Justice Munby has made some interesting comments about what “welfare” means in this day and age and what the court’s approach should be in deciding private law children cases. He asked, “What in our society today, looking to the approach of parents generally in 2012, is the task of the ordinary reasonable parent? What is the task of a judge, acting as a ‘judicial reasonable parent’ and approaching things by reference to the views of reasonable parents on the proper treatment and methods of bringing up children?”
    This might help finding an appropriate translation/definition...
     
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    wandle

    Senior Member
    English - British
    Before translating the phrase, the first need is to establish its meaning in English law. English law has long invoked the idea of the 'reasonable man' (nowadays: 'person'). To arrive at the meaning, I would approach the idea of the 'judicial reasonable parent' in three steps.

    First, 'the reasonable person':
    The reasonable person (historically reasonable man) is one of many tools for explaining the law to a jury.[1] The "reasonable person" is an emergent concept of common law.[2]
    The court expects the individual to behave as a reasonable person: that is, to exercise the degree of care and prudence that should be expected among responsible citizens.

    Secondly 'the reasonable parent': this means 'the reasonable person, when in the role of parent': in other words, one who as a parent exercises the care and prudence which society expects of a responsible parent.

    Thirdly, 'the judicial reasonable parent': this means 'the judge, when in the role of reasonable parent'. The quotation given by Holger in post 8 expresses this:
    What is the task of a judge, acting as a ‘judicial reasonable parent’ and approaching things by reference to the views of reasonable parents on the proper treatment and methods of bringing up children?”
    This does not mean that the judge (or the court) is acting as guardian or bringing up the child or children. It just means that that at some point the judge has to ask himself what the reasonable parent would do in a certain case and make his judicial decision on that basis: he decides as if he were the reasonable parent.

    By the same token, in matters which fall to the jury to decide, the jury will have to ask themselves what a reasonable parent would do and make their decision on that basis: they decide as if they were the reasonable parent.
     
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