a slave

  • zeban

    New Member
    TURKEY-TURKISH
    Does the word kırnak suggest particularly a female slave and the word - köle a male one?
    Hi Setwale_charm,

    No, the word "kırnak" does not mean a female slave in turkish. It means, "charming" or "attractive". The word "köle" means slave as you mentioned.
    But, it can be used for both males and females. Because; in turkish language, there is no male or female distinctions about the words.

    Regards,
     

    ameana7

    Senior Member
    Turkey, Turkish
    Setwale Charm, may I ask where yo saw the word "kırnak"? Because, I have never heard about it. It means indeed, "attractive, charming girl" and also, a female slave of a Sultan (cariye) which was found in the palaces, once upon a time. (I checked the Turkish dictionary. :)) In spite of "kırnak", "cariye" is used in books.
    I guess because of this, you are confusing the words. In daily life, we don't use "kırnak" to mean "slave".

    Also, Panjabigator; We don't have a word "banda". Does it mean "slave" in Arabic?
     
    Hi Ameana,
    I just spotted that in my dictionary. I am learning Turkish from French-language materials mostly. So the entry gave kırnak as esclave [fém](subst) and köle as esclave mâle.

    It is not a very detailed dictionary, it provides a lot of useful names and expressions but only a bare translation for each word with no explanation behind it.



    P.S. I wonder if in this day and age it is possible for us too to acquire a couple of charming attractive Sultans as köleler;)
     

    ameana7

    Senior Member
    Turkey, Turkish
    P.S. I wonder if in this day and age it is possible for us too to acquire a couple of charming attractive Sultans as köleler;)
    :) :)

    As zeban mentioned above, "köle" is used both for females and males. "Cariye" has a slight difference in meaning. I checked the dictionary, the translation for "cariye" is "concubine".
     

    Chazzwozzer

    Senior Member
    Turkish
    köle: slave (mainly male)
    karavaş: slave (only female)

    Kırnak, as said before, has nothing to do with slavery. Banda has never existed in Turkish by any means.
     

    spakh

    Senior Member
    Anatolian Turkish
    banda is not right. It is bende and yes that means köle in Turkish. However most people may not know it but they use it in this idiom 'Bendeniz Mehmet' That means 'your slave Mehmet'. Of course name can change. This idiom is used when you introduce yourself to somebody and it is informal.
    Afaik odalisque is an equivalent for concubine and it is from Turkish 'odalık'.
     

    Chazzwozzer

    Senior Member
    Turkish
    Right, well spotted spakh! Indeed, it is an archaic word that is totally out-of-use now (well, if you don't count "bendeniz"...) and which has been borrowed from Persian, not Arabic.
     

    elroy

    Imperfect Mod
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    I would just like to confirm that "banda" does not mean "slave" in Arabic. The word for "slave" is `abd.
     

    elroy

    Imperfect Mod
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    It's meaning are broad, Setwale.

    Yes, it can mean "servant," "worshiper," etc. but it is also the word that is normally used for "slave."

    Context is our friend! ;)
     

    Chazzwozzer

    Senior Member
    Turkish
    Abd is also a borrowing from Arabic that is not used anymore. (ABD, with capitalized letters, has nothing to do with that. It stands for Amerika Birleşik Devletleri-United States of America)
     

    yavuzotar

    Member
    Turkish
    1- "kırnak" is a slave girl, a female slave, concubine, surviving to this day only in Western Turkish languages, i.e. Turkish (kırnak), Turkmen (gırnak). It existed in Kıpçak in the same form as in Turkish (kırnak), along with "kara:wa:ş", "ka:ra:ba:ş, and "tüge:" (note: "tüge:" is in this sense only (?) in Kıpçak, in others it means female calf younger than one-year-old; root of present-day Rep. Turkish "düve", same sense).

    2- There is a word "bende" (the same "banda" mentioned in some postings here) in Turkish. It existed, as indicated by some postings, and used up until 40-50 yrs ago as a loanword from Persian, not from Arabic. Even today, though quite rarely, one can hear an old Istanbul efendisi (much less a case for an Istanbul hanımefendisi) saying "bendeniz" (=your slave) to his interlocutor, out of respect). I remember my father using the expression quite frequently up until the eighties.

    3- "Abd" in Arabic is "kul" in Turkish, not "slave" (=köle), and is used only (?) in the context of being "Allah's slave". It is evident in names such as "Abd-ullah" (Abd-ul-Allah=Allah's slave), "Abd-ul-Kerim", Abd-ul-Mecid", Abd-ul-Hamid), Kerim, Mecid and Hamid being few of the attributed names to Allah.
     
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