abierto/cerrado

gramatica

Banned
USA English
Hola a todos:

Se puede decir "A que hora abren?" What time do you open? o seria mejor decir "A que hora abre el restaurante?" En espanol no se puede decir "A que hora abren?" o el lo mismo que en ingles?

A que hora cierran?=What time do you close?

Tambien se puede decir "No abre"=It won't open o se dice "No se abre?"

Pones el se porque es reflexivo o porque es un verbo transitivo y no lleva objeto?

Me pueden explicar esto, por favor?

Gracias
 
  • Bienvenidos

    Senior Member
    USA
    English
    Reflexive can be seen as a passive reflexive:

    Se cierran a las dos
    (They close at two)

    Se cierran las tiendas a las dos.
    (The stores close at two)

    Se abre el restaurante....
    (The restaurant opens....)

    Use reflexive.
     

    prudente

    Senior Member
    Inglés estadounidense
    But in the case of stores, museums and the like, for some reason, rarely is "abrir" or "cerrar" reflexive, at least when talking about opening or closing for the day.

    Some examples from Oxford's bilingual dictionary:

    ¿a qué hora abren el mercado?
    what time does the market open?
    ¿a qué hora abren la taquilla?
    what time does the box office open?

    ¿a qué hora cierran?
    what time do you close?
    no cerramos al mediodía
    we are open o we stay open at lunchtime, we don't close for lunch
    [ S ] cerramos los lunes
    closed Mondays, we are closed on Mondays

    And the Collin's:
    las tiendas abren a las diez the shops open at ten o'clock
    los sábados no abrimos al público we're not open to the public on Saturdays
    el banco abre de 9 a 1 the bank is open from 9 to 1
    el almacén volverá a abrir en septiembre the warehouse will reopen in September

    ¿a qué hora cierran las tiendas el sábado? what time do the shops close o shut on Saturday?
    cerramos a las nueve we close at nine
    las discotecas no cierran en toda la noche the discos stay open all night

    I think the DRAE definition that best fits is:

    15. tr. Dar principio a las tareas, ejercicios o negocios propios de instituciones o establecimientos políticos, administrativos, científicos, literarios, artísticos, comerciales o industriales. Abrir las Cortes, la Universidad, un teatro, un café.
     

    JuanG1989

    Senior Member
    Español SurPeninsular
    You can say: "abren" or "abre", both are common, we can use both because the first refer to they opening and the second to the shop itself opening. Maybe the second is used a little bit more often. So we normally say:

    -¿A qué hora abren/abre? (normally you ask this to a third person not related to the shop)

    -¿A qué hora cierran/cierra? (the same as above)

    -¿A qué hora abrís?/¿A qué hora estáis abiertos? (normally you ask this to a person related to the shop)

    -¿A qué hora cerráis? (the same as above, the other possibility is not available)

    -Abre/abren a las 7/No abre/abren (a possible answer for the first question)

    -Abrimos/No abrimos (a possible answer for the third question, when the person who answers is related to the shop).

    So, in short, we don't use the reflexive se with this because we refer either to the people who open or the very shops which open. The only way to use se is when you refer to every shop in a country or the world or a region, for example: "En España se abre a las 9" (In Spain, stores are opened at 9/are open from 9/open at 9) where we refer to all the stores in general and we ommit the subject. I hope I haven't confused you ;)
     

    Aviador

    Senior Member
    Castellano de Chile
    ... Pones el se porque es reflexivo...
    ... Use reflexive.
    But in the case of stores, museums and the like, for some reason, rarely is "abrir" or "cerrar" reflexive...
    ... So, in short, we don't use the reflexive se...
    "Reflexive" is a construction in which the active subject of the sentence suffers the effects of its, his or her own action. A typical example of reflexive construction is this: María se peina = María combs herself.

    Se abre or Se cierra are examples of a type of passive construction that is very often used in Spanish and is also very peculiar to it: the pasivas reflejas. They are much more frequently used than the periphrastic passive sentences built with ser + participle. So, they are equivalent to Es abierto or Es cerrado.
    It is much more natural to a Spanish speaker to say El museo se abre a las diez than El museo es abierto a las diez.

    The pasivas reflejas, just like the impersonales con se —another construction very peculiar to Spanish—, can be used whenever one expresses an action in which the active subject is unimportant or undetermined. Who opens the museum? It doesn't matter, the important thing is that it is opened at a certain hour.

    Both constructions, the pasivas reflejas and the impersonales con se, are often confused because they look very similar, except for one important thing: in pasivas reflejas, the verb must agree with the passive subject: Los museos se abren a las diez en Santiago. On the other hand, in impersonales con se, the verb is always conjugated in the third singular person: Se ve a papá y a mamá muy felices en esta foto. The evolution of our language restricted the use of impersonales con se only to sentences in which the direct object is human or humanized. If the direct object in the equivalent active sentence is a thing or non-human, the pasivas reflejas are normally preferred; just like in Los museos en Santiago se abren a las diez.

    So Se abre is no reflexive construction, except if one actually means that something or somebody opens it-, him- or herself.
     
    Last edited:

    JuanG1989

    Senior Member
    Español SurPeninsular
    You're right, se in this case is not reflexive, I was just calling it so in a broader meaning so as to be understood. In this case is pasiva refleja, but I wouldn't confuse the person with grammar, just to give him real examples of how we use "abrir/cerrar" in spanish. And we never say "se abre" here normally, we always say "abre/abren". We would rarely say "Los museos se abren a las diez en Santiago" in Spain, we'd normally say: "Los museos abren a las 10 en Santiago".
     
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