active participle+pronoun

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Bilbo Baggins

Senior Member
American English
Hello:

In MSA, can you tag enclitic pronouns onto the active participles of transitive verbs? I know that active participles can be used to create progressive verb tenses and that when these progressives are formed from transitive verbs they can carry direct objects but what if I want to replace the direct object with an object pronoun? Would I just tag it onto the participle like I would a perfect active transitive verb?


For example:

God is creating a human. الله خالق بشرًا

But what if I wanted to say: God is creating him. Would it be: الله خالقه
 
  • cute angel

    Senior Member
    the universe
    الله خلق بشرا not خالق بشرا means God creates a humanbeing

    الله خالقه is; God is his creator .
    I think so let's see the rest of the members
     

    Abu Bishr

    Senior Member
    Afrikaans, South Africa
    Hello:

    Can you tag enclitic pronouns onto the active participles of transitive verbs? I know that active participles can be used to create progressive verb tenses and that when these progressives are formed from transitive verbs they can carry direct objects but what if I want to replace the direct object with an object pronoun? Would I just tag it onto the participle like I would a perfect active transitive verb?


    For example:

    God is creating a human. الله خالق بشرًا

    But what if I wanted to say: God is creating him. Would it be: الله خالقه
    You would say: الله خالقٌٌ إياهُ (Allaahu khaaliqun iyyaahu)
     

    Bilbo Baggins

    Senior Member
    American English
    You would say: الله خالقٌٌ إياهُ (Allaahu khaaliqun iyyaahu)
    Hello:

    What is iyyaahu? Is it some sort of independent object pronoun? I notice that the ha is present at the end. Is this the third person singular masculine enclitic added to some sort of base to create an independent object pronoun?

    Thanks!
     

    elroy

    Imperfect Mod
    US English, Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    إياهُ is a "separate" objective pronoun that is used in some contexts instead of the "connected" version.

    The supposed use of active participles to express progressive tenses has been brought up before, and I have to say, I'm not sure what that claim in based on. I'm fairly confident I would never translate "God is creating" as الله خالق. If a progressive action is to be emphasized, the verb has to be in the present tense as far as I'm concerned.
     

    Bilbo Baggins

    Senior Member
    American English
    إياهُ is a "separate" objective pronoun that is used in some contexts instead of the "connected" version.

    The supposed use of active participles to express progressive tenses has been brought up before, and I have to say, I'm not sure what that claim in based on. I'm fairly confident I would never translate "God is creating" as الله خالق. If a progressive action is to be emphasized, the verb has to be in the present tense as far as I'm concerned.
    Wow. I guess my text is wrong. What about past progressives? My text says that when combined with kaana, the active participle can be translated as "was verbing". Is this correct? If the active participle participle isn´t used for progressives what is it used for? Thanks.
     

    Josh_

    Senior Member
    U.S., English
    What is iyyaahu? Is it some sort of independent object pronoun? I notice that the ha is present at the end. Is this the third person singular masculine enclitic added to some sort of base to create an independent object pronoun?
    إيا by itself is not a pronoun, but serves as a pronoun place holder, or as you said, a base, when a pronoun cannot be attached to a verb, maSdar, or verbal adjective for whatever reason, such as there already being a pronoun attached to a verb or to avoid an iDaafa construction. An example might be:

    الكتاب الذي أعطاني إياه صديقي...

    The book that my friend gave me...

    ما هي الرسالة التي يريد الكاتب أن يبلغنا إياها؟

    What is the message that the author wants to convey to us?

    However, it is my understanding that إيا is not tremendously common in modern style and such sentences can be reworded with the aid of a preposition:

    الكتاب الذي أعطاني صديقي لي...
    ما هي الرسالة التي يريد الكاتب أن يبلغها لنا؟
     

    elroy

    Imperfect Mod
    US English, Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    Wow. I guess my text is wrong. What about past progressives? My text says that when combined with kaana, the active participle can be translated as "was verbing". Is this correct? If the active participle participle isn´t used for progressives what is it used for? Thanks.
    In the past, you can use the AVP with intransitive verbs, but I would use the normal present tense with transitive verbs.

    كان قادم - He was approaching
    كان يأكل - He was eating

    The present tense is a little more complicated, and the form used is very context-dependent. I think this is off-topic, though, because your main concern is إياه. :)
    الكتاب الذي أعطاني صديقي لي...
    ما هي الرسالة التي يريد الكاتب أن يبلغها لنا؟
    The first sentence is incorrect, but I think that's simply the result of a typographical error - أعطاني should be أعطاه.

    I would not agree with the claim that إياه is not common in MSA. In fact, both of your sentences sound much better with إياه, and going by my intuition I would even say that يبلغها لنا simply doesn't work.
     
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