adjective order: nice warm / warm nice

Txantxiku

Member
Spain Spanish
In an exercise I see that the correct answer is I'll buy you a nice warm fur coat for your birthday, and I'll buy you a warm nice fur coat for your birthday would be incorrect. Why? Is there any rule about the order?
 
  • zeozer

    Member
    Spanish Spain
    Hi Txantxiku,
    I my grammar book this is the order:

    Opinion, Size, Most other qualities, colour or pattern, Nationality, Material
    (lovely/ big/ warm/ striped/ Spanish/ silk)

    If you want the chart I'd send you by email. Bye!
     
    Last edited:

    jolomol

    Member
    Spanish - Spain
    Yo me los aprendí así: opinión subjetiva y luego los objetivos en el orden TAEFPCMO: Tamaño - Aspectos Generales - Edad - Forma - Personalidad - Color - Material - Origen
     

    donbill

    Senior Member
    English - American
    In an exercise I see that the correct answer is I'll buy you a nice warm fur coat for your birthday, and I'll buy you a warm nice fur coat for your birthday would be incorrect. Why? Is there any rule about the order?
    This is an interesting question for an angloparlante! My "native" answer is that warm nice fur coat sounds really strange. My "cuasi explanation" is that the more important adjective is placed closer to the noun. Warm is more important than nice for describing coats. Nice is, in fact, a rather meaningless word in such contexts. It's just a subjective evaluation that adds little to the fact: the coat is a warm coat.

    It was interesting for me to see the rules that have been quoted in this thread. I had never heard of them!

    Saludos
     

    donbill

    Senior Member
    English - American
    Txantxiku,

    We could take this to ridiculous extremes:

    She has a nice long colorful synthetic fur coat. If I were to add warm to that sequence. I think I'd change its position: She has a nice long warm colorful synthetic fur coat. I might even use and. She has a nice long warm and colorful synthetic fur coat.

    I don't mean to confuse, just having a little fun.

    Saludos
     

    albertovidal

    Senior Member
    Spanish, Argentina
    In my opinion, the order of the adjetives depends on to which you want to place the stress. I.e. If in you phrase it's more important "nice" then " a nice warm...". On the other hand if you want to put the stress on the fact that it's warm, then "a warm nice..."
    Regards
     

    -Mark-

    New Member
    English- Ireland
    This is very true, although in saying that; 'warm nice' still does not sound correct. There is nothing wrong with the meaning of the sentence, and in conversation you could get away with it, but 'nice warm' sounds more natural.
     

    nangueyra

    Senior Member
    Castellano-Argentina
    In my opinion, the order of the adjetives depends on to which you want to place the stress. I.e. If in you phrase it's more important "nice" then " a nice warm...". On the other hand if you want to put the stress on the fact that it's warm, then "a warm nice..."
    Regards
    Pero entonces es lo contrario de lo que dice donbill

    Porque él dice que la palabra que uno considera más importante debe ir más cerca del sustantivo.

    Por favor algún nativo que aclare la situación.

    Saludos
     

    donbill

    Senior Member
    English - American
    Pero entonces es lo contrario de lo que dice donbill

    Porque él dice que la palabra que uno considera más importante debe ir más cerca del sustantivo.

    Por favor algún nativo que aclare la situación.

    Saludos
    No diría warm nice coat, sino nice warm coat. Es posible que sea mejor hablar de la palabra más restrictiva en vez de la más importante. Nice warm fur coat: What kind of coat? A fur coat. What kind of fur coat? A warm one. What kind of warm fur coat? A nice one.
     

    albertovidal

    Senior Member
    Spanish, Argentina
    No diría warm nice coat, sino nice warm coat. Es posible que sea mejor hablar de la palabra más restrictiva en vez de la más importante. Nice warm fur coat: What kind of coat? A fur coat. What kind of fur coat? A warm one. What kind of warm fur coat? A nice one.
    I get your point and agree
     

    Txantxiku

    Member
    Spain Spanish
    Surfing in the internet I have found this rules and they are very close with the two first answers (zeozer and jolomol):

    Cuando 2 o más adjetivos acompañan a un sustantivo el orden de su colocación es el siguiente:
    1.- Adjetivos subjetivos:
    Expresan una opinión personal:

    beautiful, ugly, nice, lovely, friendly, elegant, useful...
    2.- Adjetivos objetivos
    Definen propiedades objetivas del sustantivo. Estos a su vez siguen el siguiente orden, si bien cabe cierta flexibilidad:

    a) Tamaño:

    big, small, huge, great, medium...
    (excepto "little" que iría en el mismo lugar que los que expresan edad)
    b) Aspectos generales:

    sporty, dirty, quiet, expensive, healthy, strong...
    c) Edad:

    old, new, adult, young... (también "little")
    d) Forma:

    round, square, hexagonal, wide, narrow...
    e) Personalidad:

    shy, ambitious, humble, arrogant...
    f) Color:

    red, yellow, blue...
    g) Material:

    plastic, wooden, metallic, woollen...
    h) Origen:

    Russian, Spanish, European...
    But the natives don´t agree, so?
     

    Forero

    Senior Member
    It depends on what you want to modify what.

    Nice warm coat = a warm coat that is nice (perhaps = "comfortable"), or a coat that is "nice and warm" = "pleasantly warm", approximately.

    Warm nice coat = a nice coat that is warm, where "nice" means something like "high-quality", "stylish", "luxurious", or "pricey". Nice here is taken as a characteristic, and warm is descriptive.
     

    inib

    Senior Member
    British English
    It depends on what you want to modify what.

    Nice warm coat = a warm coat that is nice (perhaps = "comfortable"), or a coat that is "nice and warm" = "pleasantly warm", approximately.

    Warm nice coat = a nice coat that is warm, where "nice" means something like "high-quality", "stylish", "luxurious", or "pricey". Nice here is taken as a characteristic, and warm is descriptive.
    Forero, I totally sympathise with the logic of your argument. However, without doing a google search for "hits", I think that in either of your proposed situations, a vast majority of natives would end up automatically saying "a nice warm coat", and would depend on intonation to give any extra emphasis or nuance.
    (This is only an opinion - I have nothing to support it)
     

    Alejandra15

    Senior Member
    Peruvian Spanish
    Txantxiku,

    We could take this to ridiculous extremes:

    She has a nice long colorful synthetic fur coat. If I were to add warm to that sequence. I think I'd change its position: She has a nice long warm colorful synthetic fur coat. I might even use and. She has a nice long warm and colorful synthetic fur coat.

    I don't mean to confuse, just having a little fun.

    a nice(opinion) long(size) warm(quality) colorful(color) synthetic fur(material) coat

    opinion > size > quality > age > shape > colour > participle forms > origin > material type > purpose
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/learningenglish/grammar/ask_about_english/080624/

    I think that despite of the fact that you say you knew nothing about the rules we-learners of English- have to follow , you ended up using them :D , or so I think :confused:
     
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