afin de soulever une fin de non-recevoir devant le tribunal

Bonjour!!

Voici une phrase:
Une tentative de ce dernier d’invoquer son immunité de juridiction afin de soulever une fin de non-recevoir devant le tribunal arbitral semble donc vouée à l’échec

ce que je ne réussis pas a saisir , c'est "afin de soulever une fin de non-recevoir devant le tribunal arbitral ".. c'est une construction évidemment trop sophistiquée pour moi.
 
  • James Brandon

    Senior Member
    English + French - UK
    Interesting - and tricky - one.

    About the French expression (and see paragraph on legal matters):-

    http://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/fin_de_non_recevoir

    Apparently, the exact term in English is "estoppel", which comes from Old French (word meaning "a bung", as in "blocking something"). But the definition in the Oxford Concise Dictionary does not seem to fit with your example.

    A bit of (further) context may help and maybe you should post this up in the specialist forum for technical terms...

    The sentence in French is:

    Une tentative de ce dernier d’invoquer son immunité de juridiction afin de soulever une fin de non-recevoir devant le tribunal arbitral semble donc vouée à l’échec

    I would say something like:

    An attempt, on his [or her - depending on who 'ce dernier' is] part to invoke [or put forward] his [or her] immunity from prosecution [or 'legal immunity'?] in order to block the legal process [or, oppose categorically the continuation of the legal process] with the arbitration court is thus bound to fail.
     
    a) Position du droit français s’agissant de l’immunité des États étrangers

    Il ressort clairement de la jurisprudence rendue en matière internationale par les juridictions françaises, qu’au regard du droit français, le Gouvernement a renoncé à son immunité de juridiction.
    Une tentative de ce dernier d’invoquer son immunité de juridiction afin de soulever une fin de non-recevoir devant le tribunal arbitral semble donc vouée à l’échec.
    L’État guinéen ne saurait se prévaloir de son immunité de juridiction dès lors qu’il y a renoncé de manière certaine, c’est-à-dire dénuée d’équivoque :
     

    Foxynet

    Senior Member
    French - France
    Hi,

    Immunité de juridiction cannot be translated as immunity from prosecution.
    It doesn't mean you can't be prosecuted at all, but that you can't be prosecuted before foreign courts.

    fin de non recevoir (Fr) = irrecevabilité (fr) = inadmissibility (en) (matter constituting a bar to proceeding with an action)

    I suggest : "an attempt from the government to invoke his immunity of jurisdiction in order to raise the inadmissibility of the action before the court of arbitration is thus bound to fail."
     

    James Brandon

    Senior Member
    English + French - UK
    Would confirm what I was saying, in the main. Governments and diplomats enjoy special status, i.e. immunity from prosecution (hence the number of despots swanning around the world with blood dripping from their hands... :D). If the government of country XYZ gives up (or waives) its immunity (legal immunity or immunity from prosecution*), it is liable.

    To put it differently, if country XYZ waived its legal immunity, they cannot, then, invoke it in order to block proceedings - so that trying to block proceedings in the name of their legal immunity is bound to fail.

    The legal terms suggested will clearly make for a better translation than mine, which is couched in layman's terms. (But a government is 'it' or 'its', not 'he' or 'his').

    *Diplomatic privilege is used also, but in relation to embassies.
     

    Foxynet

    Senior Member
    French - France
    you're right, Mezian, "immunity from jurisdiction" is more appropriate.

    and I never know whether it's "it, he or she" when not talking about a real person, so thanks James Brandon for correcting me.
    I totally agree with you concerning the way immunity works but still, immunity from jurisdiction is not as broad as immunity from prosecution.
     

    James Brandon

    Senior Member
    English + French - UK
    Interesting difference re. immunity from prosecution or jurisdiction.

    A government, if treated as an entity in its own right, would be "it" because it is a thing. If treated as a group of people, I suppose it could be "they" and plural. Still, it could never be "he" or "she"... (Although, as we remember, I think it is Louis XIV who would have said: L'Etat, c'est moi. :cool:.) (The quote is not from Gen De Gaulle or N Sarkozy, in case you were wondering.)
     
    Last edited:

    bezani

    Senior Member
    English - Canada
    Hi James Brandon
    Could you post a link to where we can find the specialized forums? Somehow I have never heard of those, and looking over my screen, I don't really see where they would be. Thanks, and sorry for posting this in the wrong spot.
     

    James Brandon

    Senior Member
    English + French - UK
    I am not sure I understand what you are referring to. I have re-read this -- old -- Thread and, for my part, I was not referring to a specialist forum but to Wikipedia. I am not a legal expert. Clearly, some of the other contributors were, to one extent or other: they may be able to better respond than I have.
     

    James Brandon

    Senior Member
    English + French - UK
    I believe I was referring to the sub-forum called Specialized Terminology, which you can find on the front end of this online forum. (Then again, this was literally years ago, so I am not sure what I was thinking...) I believe this is a specialist-vocabulary sub-forum that may be appropriate, but Moderators may want to confirm that this is the case. I cannot say I have used it. I was not referring to an outside forum that would be known to me.

    One tool which is quite good is Linguee: http://www.linguee.com/

    Strangely, or revealingly, if you try 'fin de non-recevoir', you get a different translation in every instance, or close. In the more legalistic documents, 'ground[s] of inadmissibility of proceedings' seems to crop up.

    I hope this helps!
     
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