Agarra tu talón derecho (possessive pronoun)

julie1g

Senior Member
American English
Google Translate is using the possessive pronoun with body parts. Agarra tu talón derecho. Tira de tus talones.
I am confused about using the definite article with body parts.
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  • mamabookworm

    Senior Member
    English-United States
    Are you asking whether Google Translate is correct to use “tus talones” rather than “los talones”? I’m not a native speaker, but I would say Google got it wrong.
     

    Sendro Páez

    Senior Member
    Spanish - España
    Google Translate is using the possessive pronoun with body parts. Agarra tu talón derecho. Tira de tus talones.
    I am confused about using the definite article with body parts.
    View attachment 66862
    — Agarra tu talón derecho es una frase correcta.

    — Más allá de su corrección gramatical, y entrando en la pragmática, yo jamás la usaría. Si acaso, Agárrate el talón derecho. Lo de Google lo percibo (no sé si erróneamente) como una influencia del inglés.

    — El ejemplo más clásico a este respecto, el que suelo mencionar a mis alumnos, es Me lavo las manos, que se traduce al inglés (corregidme si me equivoco, por favor) como 'I wash my hands'.

    — De paso: La frase en cuestión emplea la palabra tu, que no es un «pronombre posesivo». Pertenece, sí, a la categoría transversal de los posesivos, pero en ningún caso es un pronombre: es determinante o adjetivo, dependiendo del profesor de gramática a quien preguntes.
     

    gvergara

    Senior Member
    Castellano (variedad chilensis)
    Hola:

    Me parece que emplear el pronombre te es suficiente para indicar que la parte del cuerpo a la que te refieres es tuya, y siento que por ello el empleo del posesivo es redundante y no agrega nada de información relevante. En francés por ejemplo no es estilísticamente correcto decir Me duele mi cabeza por esta misma razón, y en castellano no es para nada natural tampoco. Quizás tenga algo que ver con el uso de las partes del cuerpo en la oración.
     

    Circunflejo

    Senior Member
    Castellano de Castilla
    Me parece que emplear el pronombre te es suficiente para indicar que la parte del cuerpo a la que te refieres es tuya, y siento que por ello el empleo del posesivo es redundante y no agrega nada de información relevante.
    Las frases propuestas en el mensaje con el que se abrió el hilo carecen de te.
     

    gvergara

    Senior Member
    Castellano (variedad chilensis)
    Tienes toda la razón, gracias por la observación. Entonces no veo mayor problema en emplear uno u otro.

    Edito: Creo que inconscientemente la oración que me parece más natural es reflexiva: Agárrate el talón. Por eso mi respuesta anterior. No siendo éste el caso, optaría naturalmente por Agarra tu talón, pero no descartaría el empleo del artículo.
     

    gengo

    Senior Member
    American English
    Google Translate is using the possessive pronoun with body parts. Agarra tu talón derecho. Tira de tus talones.
    I am confused about using the definite article with body parts.

    I'd say that your instinct is correct. Go with what was suggested above: Agárrate el talón / los talones.

    The Google version is not incorrect, but probably isn't what a native would say. It's sort of like "grab yourself by the heels." It's grammatically correct, but we don't say it that way, and instead use the possessive.
     

    gengo

    Senior Member
    American English
    There's no other way to provide you an accurate answer.

    I don't understand why you are asking for more context. The OP showed us a photo of a stretching pose and said that Google Translate used the possessive form, but she wants to know if that is natural. That is, she wants to know if "Agarra tu talón derecho" sounds more or less natural than "Agárrate el talón derecho."

    That seems like plenty of context to me.
     

    Circunflejo

    Senior Member
    Castellano de Castilla
    That seems like plenty of context to me.
    Not to me. We need to know where the action takes place. If it's an isolated action. If it's preceded by some other action/s (which one/s...), followed by some other actions (what sort of them...) The overall context in which the action will take place.
    she wants to know if "Agarra tu talón derecho" sounds more or less natural than "Agárrate el talón derecho."
    That's not the question but
    Would los talones be a better translation instead of tus talones?
    And I'm afraid we can't answer that question without knowing the overall context. Sorry.
     

    gvergara

    Senior Member
    Castellano (variedad chilensis)
    Agarrar is grab, and tirar is pull, so the verb choice actually depends on what you want to say. But again, if you decide to use tirar, I'd still think it's preferable to say Tírate los talones.
     

    gvergara

    Senior Member
    Castellano (variedad chilensis)
    And I'm afraid we can't answer that question without knowing the overall context. Sorry
    And what (kind of) context would be necessary and would make the difference? Honest, the picture is clear enough, even if Kim Jong Un gave her the order to slowly grab her toes on the surface of the moon, the answers would most likely not change.
     

    gengo

    Senior Member
    American English
    That's not the question

    That is exactly the question. The OP said in post #1 "I am confused about using the definite article with body parts." It could not be more clear to me what she wants to know, which is what I said above.

    The question was answered perfectly by Sendro (#4).
     

    Circunflejo

    Senior Member
    Castellano de Castilla
    That is exactly the question. The OP said in post #1 "I am confused about using the definite article with body parts." It could not be more clear to me what she wants to know, which is what I said above.
    No. The question isn't
    if "Agarra tu talón derecho" sounds more or less natural than "Agárrate el talón derecho."
    but
    Grab your heels-agarra tus talones
    Pull your heels--tira de tus talones
    Would los talones be a better translation instead of tus talones?
    In other words, agarra tu talón derecho versus agarra el talón derecho.
     

    gvergara

    Senior Member
    Castellano (variedad chilensis)
    Wherever it is the action takes place, whatever it is that precedes the action, the picture clearly shows a picture of a woman agarrándose los talones.
     

    Circunflejo

    Senior Member
    Castellano de Castilla
    Wherever it is the action takes place, whatever it is that precedes the action, the picture clearly shows a picture of a woman agarrándose los talones.
    Yes, but that's not the question. Nobody asked what we see on the picture, as far as I can tell.
     

    gvergara

    Senior Member
    Castellano (variedad chilensis)
    Thanks for the "context", julie1g. As stated above, this does not change at all the answers provided, so it is certainly irrelevant to know whether the woman is doing yoga, being tortured or having a sunbath.
     

    julie1g

    Senior Member
    American English
    Agarrar is grab, and tirar is pull, so the verb choice actually depends on what you want to say. But again, if you decide to use tirar, I'd still think it's preferable to say Tírate los talones.
    Gracias

    Thanks for the "context", julie1g. As stated above, this does not change at all the answers provided, so it is certainly irrelevant to know whether the woman is doing yoga, being tortured or having a sunbath.
    😁
     

    Circunflejo

    Senior Member
    Castellano de Castilla
    Well, as it seems everybody is happy with the answers and context provided, I guess I'm done here so I won't insist anymore.
     
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