agriculture raisonnée

Discussion in 'French-English Vocabulary / Vocabulaire Français-Anglais' started by EricP, Oct 2, 2007.

  1. EricP Member

    Canada
    France
    Hi Everyone,
    I'm trying to translate the concept of "agriculture raisonnée", which implies that this agriculture includes specific methods that are environmental friendly, etc... without being an "organic" agriculture. I even do not know if this concept exists out of France. Can we say: "reasonned agriculture"?

    Bonjour à tous,
    J'essaie de traduire le concept d'agriculture "raisonnée" qui implique que cette agriculture utilise des méthodes spécifiques censées être plus respectueuses de l'environnement etc... sans que cela soit de l'agriculture biologique. Je ne sais même pas si ce terme existe ailleurs qu'en France. Puis-je dire "reasonned agriculture"?

    Thanks, merci
    Eric
     
  2. cropje_jnr

    cropje_jnr Senior Member

    Canberra, Australia
    English - Australia
    Est-ce dans le sens de "durable" (comme le développement durable, par exemple?)

    Si oui, on peut peut-être parler de "sustainable agricultural practices"...
     
  3. hunternet

    hunternet Senior Member

    Paris
    France - French
    --> aware agriculture practices ?
     
  4. Jean-Michel Carrère Senior Member

    French from France
    As Cropje Jnr pointed out, reasoned agricultured (the phrase, I think, is mostly used by the French farming community) is related to sustainable agriculture, isn't it ?
     
  5. EricP Member

    Canada
    France
    It is not as "sustainable" that means mostly a long-term activity that will allow farmers to produce with an energetic balance and low impact on environment. By example, in another domain, solar heating is sustainable because you don't extract fossil fuels. "Raisonnée" means that you follow a list of criteria that has been established previously. It means that you must follow some rules, whatever they are.
     
  6. EricP Member

    Canada
    France
    un example: les hypermarchés français favorisent les paysans qui pratiquent l'agriculture raisonnée
     
  7. Jean-Michel Carrère Senior Member

    French from France
  8. RuK Senior Member

    Outside Paris
    English/lives France
    I think it really is sustainable agriculture. I don't agree that 'agriculture raisonnée' means obeying pre-established rules. It means using a reasonable amount of inputs, which is what sustainable agriculture aims for.
     
  9. edwingill Senior Member

    England English
    Integrated farming
     
  10. Punky Zoé

    Punky Zoé Senior Member

    Pau
    France - français
    IMHO, there is nothing sustainable in "agriculture raisonnée", it is a marketing concept invented by the FNSEA in order to promote an intensive agriculture using a reasoned quantity of pesticides.
     
  11. edwingill Senior Member

    England English
  12. Nicomon

    Nicomon Senior Member

    Montréal
    Français, Québec ♀
  13. EricP Member

    Canada
    France
    It seems that "integrated farming" is the most accurate word (related indeed with wikipedia). I agree with Punky Zoe that it is a marketing concept that does not deal with "sustainable" or "organic".
    Une fois encore, je suis "espanté" (comme on dit dans le midi) par la qualité et la célérité des réponses. Merci encore à tous pour votre aide et vos remarques
    Eric
     
  14. FloB Member

    France
    French-English
    Hello,
    I know that this discussion began two years ago but as I need the translation of "agriculture raisonnée". So I was looking for and I found your talk. So I disagree that this is only for marketing reason, it really deals something with sustainable but in fact in France the administration is so hard and deep, that the specifications (cahier des charges) destroyed anything. It's so boring and hard to get properly all the right things.

    So concerning the translation in itself, I went on website of a label that I know they are taking part in the concept of "agriculture raisonnée" called TERRA VITIS (refering to wines of course) and in the english translation it's written "sustainable agriculture".

    I let everyone think about it. I tried to take part in the way of thinking.
     
  15. Keith Bradford

    Keith Bradford Senior Member

    Brittany, NW France
    English (Midlands UK)
    Which proves that some earlier translator was as confused as us. But perhaps he didn't have the advantage of WordReference to help him...?
     
  16. FloB Member

    France
    French-English
    Yes I know that ! But I think for this kind of specific and official website, the translators should be the best, I hope so in fact!

    Thank you for your quick reaction!
     
  17. I've just come across the same term and I'm going with "responsible farming" - it seemed right to me and was the first thing that came to mind, and after googling it, I'm pretty confident about it.

    It's basically the idea of using "modern" farming techniques in a reasonable way, using the least amount of chemicals possible.
     
  18. EricP Member

    Canada
    France
    I finally agree with badgrammar about "responsible farming". It seems to be the best translation, covering both the direct translation and the meaning behind.
     
  19. retriever gal

    retriever gal Senior Member

    SW France
    English (the Queen's)
    it's definitely "sustainable agriculture" : we use this expression all the time in Bordeaux for viticulture.
     
  20. Punky Zoé

    Punky Zoé Senior Member

    Pau
    France - français
    Definitely sustainable, only for those who promote this system.
     
  21. çamegonfle Senior Member

    French (France)
    Hello,

    I think this is an affront to translate "agriculture raisonnée" as "sustainable agriculture".

    "Sustainable agriculture" is a scientific concept, which means that the type of agriculture is sustainable from economic, social and ecological points of view. In French it would be "agriculture durable".

    "Agriculture raisonnée" is a political concept, which refers to a type of agriculture that (pretends to) tends towards "sustainable agriculture" but which is not.

    Of course it s confusing and I would say it is on purpose......... ;-)
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2010
  22. retriever gal

    retriever gal Senior Member

    SW France
    English (the Queen's)
    thanks for your input - but how would you translate 'agriculture raisonnée in English then?
     
  23. Surfin' Bird Senior Member

    South West France
    French;France.
    Just to add to the general confusion :):

    How about "sensible farming"?
     
  24. retriever gal

    retriever gal Senior Member

    SW France
    English (the Queen's)
    Not sure about that one....although I have heard it used a couple of times - think it sounds weird though!
     
  25. Surfin' Bird Senior Member

    South West France
    French;France.
    I've heard it too. (That's why I suggested it.)
     
  26. çamegonfle Senior Member

    French (France)
    Hi RetrieverGal,

    Actually I would say that everybody is free to translate it his way since it is an agricultural concept that only exists in France. "Sensible agriculture" is the closest translation, you could even let it in French..

    As a political explanation in the French context, it resulted of a compromise between the advocates of the intensification (led by the industry) which took place in the last half a century and the growing protest in the civil society in response to it.

    Cheers
     
  27. çamegonfle Senior Member

    French (France)
    Actually the choice of the word "raisonnée" could be understood as an attempt to bring sense/reason in this crazy intensification process. The translation with "sensible" really makes sense I would say.
     
  28. Punky Zoé

    Punky Zoé Senior Member

    Pau
    France - français
    :confused: A compromise beetween advocates and protest ? It sounds a bit weird. There is no compromise in agriculture raisonnée, just a political decision made by the government under the control of the dominant representatives of intensive farming.
     
  29. çamegonfle Senior Member

    French (France)
    It depends how you consider it.. the gap between what it pretends to be and what it is.. Basically I agree with you..
     
  30. I beg to differ. It is most definitely NOT "sustainable". Currently working on a text that is quite accurate on this issue, and they are different layers on a same issue. badgrammar and EricP were correct in their conclusions. Sustainable is a not exactly the same concept.
    As a new member I cannot post a link, but please refer to one of the 33 900 hits on Google for "responsible farming".
     
  31. Bordelais Senior Member

    Bordeaux
    English - British
    This is from the website of the Farre (Forum de l 'Agriculture Raisonnée Respectueuse de l'Environnement).
     
  32. Yet another subtle difference.

    The most authoritative French translation of "integrated" is "intégrée", as in:

    IOBC : International Organisation for Biological and Integrated Control of Noxious Animals and Plants

    which on their official website gives:

    OILB : Organisation Internationale de Lutte Biologique et Intégrée contre les Animaux et les Plantes Nuisibles
     
  33. Thanks retriever gal, my bad! Just came across the term again and I must agree that you've given the correct response!
     
  34. Punky Zoé

    Punky Zoé Senior Member

    Pau
    France - français
    Depend who is using te expression. Sustainable agriculture is "agriculture durable" in French (not agriculture raisonnée)...
     
  35. Jean-Michel Carrère Senior Member

    French from France
  36. Wodwo Senior Member

    London UK
    UK English
    I'm trying to deal with this too, and I think the problem with referring to sites like the above is that whoever translated the concept as "integrated farming" was just another translator, just like many of us who use WordReference and with all the constraints that we know about. So while it might be an accepted version in certain circles, as a translation it simply doesn't do what the original does and won't really work in the kind of marketing context where I need an English version of "agriculture raisonnée". For obvious reasons to do with marketing, politics and all kinds of other things that have been mentioned before, "agriculture raisonnée" has very clear connotations to anybody who comes across it - sensible, rational, thought through, etc. Whereas "integrated farming" is just a piece of jargon that means nothing to anyone who doesn't already know what it means. Integrated with what??? Besides, my context is wine growing, so not "farming" at all.

    I'm going to go with "responsible agriculture", which I think has the right tone and connotations.
     
  37. Notafrog Member

    España (Catalunya)
    English UK
    Well I'm really late to the party but that's because I just came across this term for the first time.
    “Agriculture Raisonnée” is the name of a certificate, so you wouldn't normally translate it (there's nothing stopping you adding a footnote). And since it apparently doesn't exist outside France, there's really no point looking for an “official” translation. In any case, the term coined by the certificating authority has a bit of a “n'importe quoi” ring to it don't you think? On a bad day I would just call it "Reasoned Agriculture" and leave the EL reader as bewildered as the French reader was: who said English readers were entitled to preferential treatment, eh?
    Anyway, after reading all your posts—thank you Wordreferencers—I conclude that “Agriculture Raisonnée” is a compromise whereby a mandated set of somewhat arbitrary farming or horticultural practices is used (and if that doesn't include grape growing, I don't know what does). The parenthesis I am going to insert after the French term in my text is therefore, daft as you like, "compliant farming practice", or maybe "...practices" if the plural fits better. It's no more and no less than the truth.
     
  38. Wodwo Senior Member

    London UK
    UK English
    I rather like "compliant", although as you indicate it's vague as anything. But it does convey the idea that there are rules and this kind of approach conforms to them. I don't think "farming" as a term covers "wine-growing" though. So for my context I'd have had to say "compliant agricultural practices" or "compliant wine-growing practices". Or maybe "agriculture raisonnée certified practices…" - gives the idea that there's a certificate to be had and they've got it, even if the reader doesn't know what it really is.
     
  39. Keith Bradford

    Keith Bradford Senior Member

    Brittany, NW France
    English (Midlands UK)
    Gosh, I do love this site!
     

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