Air & oxygen

    • Dutch: lucht (German Luft) vs. zuurstof (GER Sauerstoff), a literal translation of oxy-gen.

    Special uses:
    - opluchting, relief
    - gebakken lucht, "baked air" (meaning nothing)uit
    - uit de lucht [vallen.*..] (lit. falling out of the blue, being surprised) // uit de lucht gegrepen, seized/grabbed/... out of the air (nonsensical, non-existent, fictitious)
    - een luchtkasteel (castle in thin air)
    - .... (etc., but
    [*My own variant is a zuurstofkasteel, suggesting that a project may not have been fruitful like a luchtkasteel but that it has made sense in some other way, breathing oxygen in our lives or something the like. Not (yet) in a dictionary though! ;-)]
     
    Last edited:
    No surprises in Spanish there, as you may already know: aire and oxígeno, just like in English. I imagine you don't really need any etymological information on those ;) (?), and as for some interesting compounds/metaphors, well, I don't think any of those come to mind right now in relation to oxígeno, which tends to be very transparent (wink, wink:rolleyes:), but there are a few for aire which I particularly like:

    • castillos en el aire = basically luchtkasteel
    • matarlas en el aire = literally, "to kill them in the air", and used to talk about someone who's very quick-witted or skillful, and who can thus easily reply to whatever might be thrown at them, or take care of a problem or situation, for example.
    • ofenderse del aire = literally, "to be offended by air", which, as you may have already guessed, means to be particularly fussy, touchy.
    • comer tortas de aire = Literally, "to eat air-filled tortas". You won't find this one in the DRAE (nor perhaps in any other Spanish dictionary), at least not in this form, because it does appear there under other guises, but I've heard it here in Mexico at least a couple of times and while the meaning is far from positive or pleasant, I found the expression itself rather funny. A torta, here in Mexico, is something like this:

    30fe76875d7687c53714844f031ce6e6.jpg

    So, of course, comer tortas de aire refers to eating very little or nothing at all, or in a less literal sense, to have very little or no money, like in the following example:

    "A tu hermano dentro de poco no le va a quedar de otra más que comer tortas de aire si sigue gastando el dinero así."

    "Your brother will soon have no choice but to live on thin air if he keeps spending money like that."
     
    Last edited:
    Greek:

    Air: «Αέρας» [aˈe̞ɾas̠] (masc.) < Classical 3rd declension masc. noun «ἀήρ» /ɐːˈɛːr/ (nom. sing.), «ἀέρος» /ɐˈeros/ (gen. sing.) --> mist, haze, clouds, air, wind (initially ἀήρ was regarded as the opposite of αἰθήρ /ɐi̯ˈtʰɛːr/ (masc.) --> ether, clean air, and described the thick covering of clouds) < PIE *h₂eu̯s-er-/*h₂eu̯s-r-h₂ morning mist cf. Lat. aurora, Ltv. aũstra, dawn light, Lith. aušra, dawn.

    Oxygen: «Οξυγόνο» [o̞k͡s̠iˈɣo̞no̞] (neut.), a word coined in French in 1777 as oxygène = begeter of acid, a compound of two Classical Greek words: Oblique «ὀξυ-» /ok͡sy-/ as first member < Classical adj. «ὀξύς, -εῖα, -ύ» /oˈk͡sys/ (masc.), /oˈk͡sêːɐ/ (fem.), /oˈk͡sy/ (neut.) --> sharp, pungent, acid (PIE *h₂eḱ-) + Classical masc. noun «γόνος» /ˈgonos/ --> that which is begotten, offspring an o-grade deverbal derivative of the deponent verb «γίγνομαι» /ˈgignomɐi̯/.

    A couple of metaphors:

    • «Αέρας κοπανιστός» [aˈe̞.ɾas̠ko̞paniˈs̠t̠o̞s] --> lit. pounded air (i.e. prepared air) when we haven't eaten anything all day, or, we have nothing at all to eat.
    • «Λόγια του αέρα» [ˈlo̞.ʝaˌt̠uaˈe̞.ɾa] --> words of air when anything we say isn't meaningful, or, when we make empty threats.
    • «X είναι το οξυγόνο μου» [ˈi.ne̞t̠͜ o̞k͡s̠iˈɣo̞.no̞mu] --> X is my oxygen when someone/something is so precious to us that we can't live without them/it.
     
    apmoy70 said:
    Greek:

    Air: «Αέρας» [aˈe̞ɾas̠] (masc.) < Classical 3rd declension masc. noun «ἀήρ» /ɐːˈɛːr/ (nom. sing.), «ἀέρος» /ɐˈeros/ (gen. sing.) --> mist, haze, clouds, air, wind (initially ἀήρ was regarded as the opposite of αἰθήρ /ɐi̯ˈtʰɛːr/ (masc.) --> ether, clean air, and described the thick covering of clouds) < PIE *h₂eu̯s-er-/*h₂eu̯s-r-h₂ morning mist cf. Lat. aurora, Ltv. aũstra, dawn light, Lith. aušra, dawn.
    Click to expand...
    What a wealth of meaning coming with this one word: mist, clouds, wind, clean air, up to morning mist, dawn, ... !

    apmoy70 said:
    A couple of metaphors:
    • «Αέρας κοπανιστός» [aˈe̞.ɾas̠ko̞paniˈs̠t̠o̞s] --> lit. pounded air (i.e. prepared air) when we haven't eaten anything all day, or, we have nothing at all to eat.
    Click to expand...
    How would you use that in a context, Apmoy? "We only have /AK/"?
    apmoy70 said:
    • «Λόγια του αέρα» [ˈlo̞.ʝaˌt̠uaˈe̞.ɾa] --> words of air when anything we say isn't meaningful, or, when we make empty threats.
    Click to expand...
    We call them hollow words, I think, or also baked air. ...
    apmoy70 said:
    • «X είναι το οξυγόνο μου» [ˈi.ne̞t̠͜ o̞k͡s̠iˈɣo̞.no̞mu] --> X is my oxygen when someone/something is so precious to us that we can't live without them/it.
    Click to expand...
    The use of oxygen as vital is perfectly logical, and yet I cannot imagine us using that metaphor! (Of course languages differ...)! Nor do I see it happen in English or German as far as I can see... Lucht/ air/ Luft seem to be very un-poetical, the same as oxygen, I think. --- I thought of a link with soul, anima, alma, because they refer to air or wind, etc., too, but ... ??? We do refer to zielsvrienden, lit. soul friends.
     
    Last edited:
    ThomasK said:
    The use of oxygen as vital is perfectly logical, and yet I cannot imagine us using that metaphor! (Of course languages differ...)! Nor do I see it happen in English or German as far as I can see... Lucht/ air/ Luft seem to be very un-poetical, the same as oxygen, I think. --- I thought of a link with soul, anima, alma, because they refer to air or wind, etc., too, but ... ??? We do refer to zielsvrienden, lit. soul friends.
    Click to expand...

    :confused: I don't know how's it in Dutch but "Luft-" has quite a number of figurative expressions.

    "Luftnummer" (air number) - a flop
    "heiße Luft" (hot air) - only talk but no action
    "Luftikus" - a lightheaded person

    But I agree, Sauerstoff is a bit unhandy for such expressions.
     
    ThomasK said:
    Could you give me the equivalent in your language for these two words please? Some basic etymological background, or some special compounds/metaphors are welcome as well.
    Click to expand...
    Air in Russian is воздух (vózdukh), a loan from Church Slavonic, etymologically ~"up-breath".
    Oxygen is кислород (kisloród), literally ~"acidogen".
     
    Cymraeg/Welsh

    Air
    aer n.m. From English 'air'. Earliest reference: 16th century

    Oxygen
    ufelai n.m. Only known reference and spelt uvelai (before the spelling reforms of 1928) in 1803
    ocsigen* n.m. From English 'oxygen'. Earliest reference with this spelling: 1937. (Previously, 1852-1915 written as ocsijen)

    *A rare example of <g> not being pronounced as [g]. Generally, the affricate is considered a foreign sound in Welsh.

    Geiriadur Prifysgol Cymru GPC 'aer3' and 'ocsigen'
     
    Frank78 said:
    :confused: I don't know how's it in Dutch but "Luft-" has quite a number of figurative expressions.

    "Luftnummer" (air number) - a flop
    "heiße Luft" (hot air) - only talk but no action
    "Luftikus" - a lightheaded person

    But I agree, Sauerstoff is a bit unhandy for such expressions.
    Click to expand...
    The main point for me was not the metaphorical use, which I illustrated in #2 for Dutch, but whether we use "Luft" or "Sauerstoff" as a metaphor for what is indispensable, vital. Your examples are perfect to demonstrate how "air" is referred to to point out that things are pointless, idle, have failed (aren't they?). That is so very special when you think of air, like our breath, as one of the vital things in life and implicitly betraying the importance of oxygen.

    As for breath/air, there might be a positive expression, but we do appear to find fresh air very important, but not air or oxygen in an expression, I think. Or maybe there is one: (een zucht van) opluchting, relief (up-air-ing) - which however in English only refers to support, lifting (up). I also thought of verluchten, like vent-i-lating, introducing fresh air.
     
    Last edited:
    I seem to think there's a similar expression (or maybe another book) based on "When Breath becomes Words". It's some sort of non-scientific approach to linguistics if I remember rightly. (And I'm open to correction here.)
     
    P.S.: As far as the metaphors are concerning, Russian frequently associates "oxygen" with free breathing - in particular, in the old Soviet saying (with a tint of dark humour) меньше народу - больше кислороду (mén'she naródu - ból'she kisloródu), lit. "the less people, the more oxygen (we have)".

    Adj. воздушный (vozdúshnyi) "air", "aerial" is also quite close to English "airy" in the meaning "light", "fluffy".
     
    Awwal12 said:
    P.S.: As far as the metaphors are concerning, Russian frequently associates "oxygen" with free breathing - in particular, in the old Soviet saying (with a tint of dark humour) меньше народу - больше кислороду (mén'she naródu - ból'she kisloródu), lit. "the less people, the more oxygen (we have)".

    Adj. воздушный (vozdúshnyi) "air", "aerial" is also quite close to English "airy" in the meaning "light", "fluffy".
    Click to expand...
    Thank you for reminding me that we associate air with freedom «αέρας ελευθερίας» [aˈe̞.ɾas̠e̞le̞fθe̞ˈɾias̠] --> air of freedom when after years of oppression a group of people are free again (they breath air of freedom).
     
    apmoy70 said:
    Thank you for reminding me that we associate air with freedom
    Click to expand...
    Apart from air & oxygen, we could also mention atmosphere:
    - J’ai besoin de changer d’atmosphère, et mon atmosphère, c’est toi.
    - C’est la première fois qu’on me traite d’atmosphère ! Atmosphère ! Atmosphère ! Est-ce que j’ai une gueule d’atmosphère ?
    (Hôtel du Nord,     Marcel Carné)
     
    @Yendred: interesting addition, had not associated that with air, but... !
    @apmoy: we do not know "lucht (air) van vrijheid", air of freedom, but I might have heard: "de geur (scent) van vrijheid". Italian authors seem to use that combinations n their titles....
    @Awwal12: airy, interesting, but like a light cake (with a lot of air in it, not compact or heavy)? Or more neg.: almost empty?
    We would refer to a need for lucht (air) instead of zuurstof (oxygen) when in such a group, mainly because the main thing that you can breathe (and we breathe in more than pure oxygen?)
     
    In Catalan, aire /'aјɾə/ and oxigen /ug'ziʒən/.

    For hydrogen, one can historically find aire inflamable ('inflammable air'), which is how Henry Cavendish, his discoverer, called it.

    There's also a literary word in Catalan I particularly like, l'airecel [from aire + cel 'sky'], defined as "the faraway air, when its only bottom is the vault of heaven'.
     
    Swedish:
    Air - luft
    Oxygen - syre/syrgas - from sur = sour

    (The Swedish word for hydrogen is väte, from våt = wet.)
     
    ThomasK said:
    @AutumnOwl , @Panceltic: would you have any specail expressions, collocations, metaphorical compounds, in your languages? Thanks!
    Click to expand...
    Lufthunger - air hunger; when a person has dyspnea, shortness of breath
    Luftfuktighet - air moistness; humidity
    Behandla någon såsom luft - treat someone as air; ignore someone
    Få luft under vingarna - get air under the wings; be able to succeed with your ideas
    Luftmaska - air stitch; crochet term, a chain
    Luftombyte - change of air; go somewhere else for a while
    Luftaffär - air business; sham, fraud
    Gripa något ur luften - catch something from the air; make up stoties, fabricate
    Vara i hetluften - be in the hot air; be in the middle of a lively discussion
    Ha många bollar i luften - Have many balls in the air; be involved in many things

    An word I saw in the Swedish Academy Dictionary was luftbad - air bath; to be outdoors (or in front of an open window in the morning) naked, surrounded by the fresh air.
     
    Last edited:
    AutumnOwl said:
    Lufthunger - air hunger; when a person has dyspnea, shortness of breath (...)
    Behandla någon såsom luft - treat someone as air; ignore someone (// Dutch)
    Få luft under vingarna - get air under the wings; be able to succeed with your ideas (...)
    Luftombyte - change of air; go somewhere else for a while (// Dutch)
    Luftaffär - air business; sham, fraud
    Gripa något ur luften - catch something from the air; make up stoties, fabricate (// Dutch)
    Vara i hetluften - be in the hot air; be in the middle of a lively discussion (nothing negative, I guess - or ...?)
    Ha många bollar i luften     - Have many balls in the air; be involved in many things

    An word I saw in the Swedish Academy Dictionary was luftbad - air bath; to be outdoors (or in front of an open window in the morning) naked, surrounded by the fresh air. Reminds me of the Japanese shinrin-yoku of 森 林 浴, bosbaden. Both somehow refer to air, I think.
    Click to expand...
    Very nice. Added some notes in bold.
     
    In the meantime I thought of the Latin roots aero- (almost like wind, i suppose) and spir(o)/spirit- (breath, wind, ghost, I think). I think they are all mostly used in a literal sense, although... Noone thinks of that root in for example conspiracy (which refers to breathing together literally while plotting evil, whereas I guess there is also a link with the Christian kiss of peace in early Masses!) and inspiration (the breath of a god/ God into us). Even when we sweat or transpire, there is a link because our breath turns into vapour or a liquid, so I read at etymonline.com. [I do wonder:is my breath turning into sweat? I don't think. i do feel I smell much better when I transpire than when I sweat!]

    T    here might be more from Latin, like anima, animate, reanimation, etc. Come and see...
     
    Vara i hetluften might or might not be negative, it's usually about someone who likes to be involved, but sometimes a person who says or does something controversial ends up in a hot discussion they don't want to be a part of.
     
    I would have thought it was mainly negative (in Dutch the emotions/... can get heated)...

    I just thought of something else: in some Flemish dialects there is no lexical distinction between light and air, both being referred to as lucht, strictly speaking the name for "air": ik steek de lucht aan (I turn on the light) // ik krijg gene lucht (I am getting no air). Maybe a matter of phonetic variation of the *leu... root.
     
    Last edited:
    Related idioms in French:
    • ne pas manquer d'air (lit. not to run out of air), colloquial = to behave cheekily
    • il y a de l'orage dans l'air (lit. there is storm in the air) = the situation is getting worse, a quarrel is brewing
    • libre comme l'air (lit. free like the air) = completely free
    • être dans l'air du temps* (lit. to be in the air of the time) = to be fashionable, to be in tune with the times
    • parler en l'air (lit. to speak towards the air) = to speak without effect, to speak unfoundedly
    • ballon d'oxygène (lit. oxygen balloon) = a relief, something that helps improving a difficult situation
    (*) The expression "l'air du temps" even gave its name to a fragrance:

    p25852-25852_-1_-1_62731.jpg
     
    Last edited:
    Yendred said:
    ballon d'oxygène (lit. oxygen balloon) = a relief, something that helps improving a difficult situation
    Click to expand...
    We have that one in Spanish, as well ;) , or at least the DLE lists it, because I must say I don't think I've heard it once over here, but I do like it.
     
    סייבר־שד said:
    castillos en el aire = basically luchtkasteel
    Click to expand...
    Do you know what's the French equivalent expression?
    "des châteaux en Espagne"
    ;)

    A historian explains that the expression would come from the fact that castles in Spain were supposed to be rare, in order to prevent the Moors, during their incursions, from finding them and taking advantage of them to settle there.

    Romanian has the same expression (probably borrowed from French).
     
    Last edited:
    Yendred said:
    Do you know what's the French equivalent expression?
    "des châteaux en Espagne"
    ;)

    A historian explains that the expression would come from the fact that castles in Spain were supposed to be rare, in order to prevent the Moors, during their incursions, from finding them and taking advantage of them to settle there.

    Romanian has the same expression (probably borrowed from French).
    Click to expand...
    I think it was actually one of the first expressions I learned in French, shortly after buying my «Robert de poche» years ago and, true to my nature, feverishly browsing through it.
    I seem to have something of a fixation with the word castle in any language :D, just like with words for colors, the sky, the clouds, the sea, the sun, the moon and the stars, among many others. So, of course, it was one of the first words I looked up, and there it was:

    «[…] 3 loc. Faire des châteaux en Espagne, des projets chimériques.»

    I didn't know about that explanation, though, thanks! :):thumbsup:
     
    ThomasK said:
    In the meantime I thought of the Latin roots aero- (almost like wind, i suppose) and spir(o)/spirit- (breath, wind, ghost, I think). I think they are all mostly used in a literal sense, although... Noone thinks of that root in for example conspiracy (which refers to breathing together literally while plotting evil, whereas I guess there is also a link with the Christian kiss of peace in early Masses!) and inspiration (the breath of a god/ God into us). ...
    Click to expand...
    I (thanks to learning Latin at a young age) do actually think of spir- and breath in connection with respiratory, expire, and inspiration.

    To add to the list of luft-words,
    Luftmensch: Merriam-Webster defines it as "an impractical contemplative person having no definite business or income." My guess is that it arrived in American English via Yiddish.

    Oh, and 'castles in the air' is an English expression, roughly equivalent to 'daydreams.'
     
    Thanks for the hint, @Welsh_Sion! However, couldn't we deal with a lot of those great expressions informally at the Language Lab, all about dreaming (vs. stciking to reality) like "[building] castles in the air" or "luftmenschen" (people with their head in the clouds/ met het hoofd in de wolken in Dutch)...

    But I decided to go for your separate thread too.
     
    Last edited:
    Yendred said:
    Do you know what's the French equivalent expression?
    "des châteaux en Espagne"
    ;)

    A historian explains that the expression would come from the fact that castles in Spain were supposed to be rare, in order to prevent the Moors, during their incursions, from finding them and taking advantage of them to settle there.
    Click to expand...
    Hmm... How can more than ten thousand castles be something rare? :p
     
    Air: 气 （traditional：氣）；after the discovery of oxygen, we made up this new word "oxygen" using the existing “气” and a fonetic morpheme that has the same pronounciation as the Chinese word for "nourishing". So in the end "the nourishing air", Chinese version of oxygen, is "氧”.
     
    Yendred said:
    Related idioms in French:
    • ne pas manquer d'air (lit. not to run out of air), colloquial = to behave cheekily
    • il y a de l'orage dans l'air (lit. there is storm in the air) = the situation is getting worse, a quarrel is brewing
    • libre comme l'air (lit. free like the air) = completely free
    • être dans l'air du temps* (lit. to be in the air of the time) = to be fashionable, to be in tune with the times
    • parler en l'air (lit. to speak towards the air) = to speak without effect, to speak unfoundedly
    • ballon d'oxygène (lit. oxygen balloon) = a relief, something that helps improving a difficult situation
    Click to expand...
    Interesting additions, most of which I cannot translate into Dutch.

    The orage will be a storm with us, we will be free like a bird, speak "in the empty" (in het ijle [idle]) and use an oxygen castle - but that is my own neologism, just coined, but not accepted (yet ;-).
     
    Last edited:
    Yendred said:
    There are more details and examples about the French expression on this page (in French sorry):
    Château en Espagne — Wikipédia
    Click to expand...
    I see. However, with all due respect to Monsieur Pasquier, his explanation doesn't make much sense. :p Unless by dans les campagnes espagnoles he means in the middle of fields. Castles were logically built in more strategical places, favouring those with natural defences.
     
    You must log in or register to reply here.
    Back
    Top