Akarok magyart tanulni

Gerry905

Member
English
If I want to say I want to learn your language it would be Akarok ezt nyelvet tanulni meaning I would have to use the Accusative case. However, when I try to translate I want to learn Hungarian, it gives me Akarok magyarul tanulni, instead of the Accusative magyart. What's the logic or grammar rule behind this?
 
  • jazyk

    Senior Member
    Brazílie, portugalština
    Akarok ezt nyelvet tanulni doesn't mean "your language". The closest it means is "this language", you'd have to place "a" before "nyelvet". Your language in the accusative would be "a nyelvedet".

    Magyarul ends in the adverbial suffix ul. It equates more or less to saying "the Hungarian way" , "à la hongroise" , or "po-russki", if it helps at all. You simply have to use it after verbs like study, speak, or understand.
     

    Gerry905

    Member
    English
    Akarok ezt nyelvet tanulni doesn't mean "your language". The closest it means is "this language", you'd have to place "a" before "nyelvet". Your language in the accusative would be "a nyelvedet".

    Magyarul ends in the adverbial suffix ul. It equates more or less to saying "the Hungarian way" , "à la hongroise" , or "po-russki", if it helps at all. You simply have to use it after verbs like study, speak, or understand.
    Oh, yeah I was wondering which phrase to use and ended up using “I want to learn this language” and didn't go back to change the English sentence, my bad.

    I know what magyarul/angolul etc. mean on their own or used in other contexts but here it still confuses me. So if the suffix -ul is to be used with nouns after study, understand, would the following be correct:
    Akarok rajzolásul tanulni.
    Akarok fizikul felfogni.
     

    francisgranada

    Senior Member
    Hungarian
    So if the suffix -ul is to be used with nouns after study, understand, would the following be correct:
    Akarok rajzolásul tanulni.
    Akarok fizikul felfogni.
    No, because -ul is not used with nouns but with adjectives. For example rossz (bad) > rosszul (badly). In case of magyarul the word magyar is an adjective, thus magyarul is as if we said *Hungarianly in English. (Of course, Hungarianly does not exist in English, I've invented this word only for illustration ....)

    The endig -ul has nothing to do with the accusative -t. So Akarok rajzolásul tanulni has no sense, but Akarok rajzolást tanulni is grammatically ok (rajzolás is a noun).
     
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    Gerry905

    Member
    English
    No, because -ul is not used with nouns but with adjectives. For example rossz (bad) > rosszul (badly). In case of magyarul the word magyar is an adjective, thus magyarul is as if we said *Hungarianly in English. Of course, Hungarianly does not exist in English, I've invented this word only for illustration ....

    Hmm, I see. So any word that means a language in Hungarian is not a noun but an adjective? How would you say “I want to learn the Hungarian language” then?
     
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    francisgranada

    Senior Member
    Hungarian
    Hmm, I see. So any word that means a language in Hungarian is not a noun but an adjective?
    No, it is exactly like in English. The words magyar, angol, francia ... can be either nouns or adjectives the same way as the words Hungarian, English, French can be both nouns and adjectives in English. However, in case of magyarul tanulni the word magyar is perceived as an adjective (consequently magyarul is an adverb) while in case of magyart tanulni it is a noun.
    How would you say “I want to learn the Hungarian language” then?
    A magyar nyelvet akarom tanulni. (Here magyar is an adjective, nyelvet is a noun in accusative)
    Magyart akarok tanulni. (Here magyar is a noun, meaning "Hungarian language")
    Nem ismerek egy magyart se. (= I don't know any Hungarian, i.e. "no Hungarian person". Here magyar is a noun)
     
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    Gerry905

    Member
    English
    No, it is exactly like in English. The words magyar, angol, francia ... can be either nouns or adjectives the same way as the words Hungarian, English, French can be both nouns and adjectives in English. However, in case of magyarul tanulni the word magyar is perceived as an adjective (consequently magyarul is an adverb) while in case of magyart tanulni it is a noun.

    A magyar nyelvet akarom tanulni. (Here magyar is an adjective, nyelvet is a noun in accusative)
    Magyart akarok tanulni. (Here magyar is a noun, meaning "Hungarian language")
    Nem ismerek egy magyart se. (= I don't know any Hungarian, i.e. "no Hungarian person". Here magyar is a noun)
    Wait, so Magyart akarok tanulni is correct? I was under the impression that it was wrong and the correct sentence was Magyarul akarok tanulni. What is the difference between the two?
     

    francisgranada

    Senior Member
    Hungarian
    Wait, so Magyart akarok tanulni is correct? I was under the impression that it was wrong and the correct sentence was Magyarul akarok tanulni. What is the difference between the two?
    Both are correct and as to the meaning they may be equivalent. However, it depends on the context which one is better (to say so). In Hungarian also the word order is important, more over the verb akarni can be conjugated in two ways (akarok and akarom) .... In other words, there are combinations that in English cannot be rendered quite exactly without a concrete context.

    All in all, without any context, I'd say that "Magyarul akarok tanulni" means "I want to learn Hungarian" and "Magyart akarok tanulni" is more or less "The Hungarian is what I want to learn". But these are only approximative translations.
     
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    AndrasBP

    Senior Member
    Hungarian
    No, because -ul is not used with nouns but with adjectives.
    To complicate things even further :) , the suffix -ul/-ül is sometimes used with nouns, too, but this use of the suffix is mostly restricted to literary or archaic language.
    However, there are a few fixed phrases in modern Hungarian where the suffix follows a noun, and means something like "as a ...":

    például = for example (lit. "as an example")
    feleségül vesz = to marry a woman (lit. to take "as a wife")
    emlékül = in memory (of)
    hálám jeléül = as a sign of my gratitude
     
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