Albanian: flas

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123xyz

Senior Member
Macedonian
Could someone tell me whether the admirative form of the verb "flas" is "fliskam" or "folkam"? I have encountered both forms on different websites but I don't know how reliable the sources they came from are, so I don't know whether both are valid or if not, which one is. If both are valid, which is more common? Also, is it generally common for a verb to have two different admirative forms?

Thank you in advance
 
  • AgonSK

    New Member
    Italian and Albanian
    Hi, "folkam" is the admirative used in the northern dialects (gheg). I suppose so because my dialect is gheg and we say "folkam".
    As for "fliskam" (probably tosk dialect) I think it could be correct as well, given that I've heard the admirative of the verb to speak for the 3rd person singular, which is "fliska".
     

    123xyz

    Senior Member
    Macedonian
    While waiting to get a reply here, I've also asked this question on an Albanian forum I found, and there, I was told that "folkam" is the correct form, whereas "fliskam" is some street jargon, - you can look at the thread here (there are lots of other discussions in it, but you can look at the first few posts). What do you think about this?

    Anyway, in regard to the admirative in general, isn't it formed with the root of the past participle? I've observed such a pattern so far, and it would account for "folkam" as opposed to "fliskam" very conveniently:

    folur
    > fol- > folkam

    P.S. I'm learning the literary language, so I suppose that I'm interested in Tosk, the base thereof, rather than Gheg.

    P.P.S. Will you be around here on this forum in case I want to ask other questions about Albanian? I prefer to ask here rather than on the Albanian forum because I don't understand the Albanian replies very well. Also, I can't ask the members there how to say a particular word in Albanian or what a particular Albanian word means, because it's a monolingual forum. Sadly, there are very few Albanian speakers here (and Macedonian speakers too, for that matter).
     

    AgonSK

    New Member
    Italian and Albanian
    I'm a gheg native speaker (from Kosovo), but I have some knowledge of the standard language (my knowledge isn't perfect so I could make some mistakes)...I'll try to help you with the language here on the forum anyway.

    [earlier I said that the "folkam" form is used in ghegh too, but I should precise that the most used form here is "folsha"]

    Appearantly the "folkam" form corresponds to the standard form, so it is the form you should use since you're learning the standard language.
    Unfortunately things become harder when it comes to the conjugation for every person, given that I'm not sure about it in the standard language.

    As for the construction of the admirative in general, I believe that the example you suggested (folur - fol - folkam) should apply to SOME other verbs as well (you used the "folur" as the infinitive, though in most vocabularies it's indicated with the first person singular)...here some verbs that come to my mind at the moment:
    blej (buy) - blejkam
    eci (walk) - eckam
    shkruaj (write) - shkrujkam

    but it doesn't apply to verbs such as
    jam (to be) - qenkam (notice that the ending in the admirative is the same though)
    kam (to have) - paskam (//)

    I'm sorry I can't help you further with this subject, given that the admirative form differs in the standard language and dialects. However, as I said I'm willing to help you with everything else.
    ...
    One question: what do you want to learn the standard language?
     

    123xyz

    Senior Member
    Macedonian
    Thank your replying

    You say "folsha" is the more common form - do you mean that it is an admirative form (mënyra habitore)? I know it as the optative form (mënyra dëshirore), the full conjugation of which would go like this:

    1. folsha
    2. folsh
    3. foltë
    4. folshim
    5. folshit
    6. folshin

    As for the admirative conjugation of "flas" in the standard language, there's no problem - it goes like this:

    1. folkam
    2. folke
    3. folka
    4. folkemi
    5. folkeni
    6. folkan

    The suffixes are regular - one just needs the stem, i.e. "fol-" in this case. By the way, I didn't use "folur" as the infinitive - I never mentioned anything about the infinitive at all. With the "folur>fol->folkam", I was just trying to explain that the admirative stem is seemingly derived from the participle stem. Anyway, if you prefer (so that the sequence can start with the lemma form):

    flas > folur > fol- > folkam

    but it doesn't apply to verbs such as
    jam (to be) - qenkam (notice that the ending in the admirative is the same though)
    kam (to have) - paskam (//)
    Yes, it does:

    qenë > qen- > qenkam
    pasur > pas- > paskam


    In fact, it doesn't apply in the case "blej" and "skhruaj". Their participles are "blerë" and "skhruar" respectively, so I'd have expected the admirative forms to be "blekam" and "shkruakam".

    As to your question regarding why I want to learn the standard language (as opposed to a dialect), there are multiple reasons. First of all, it's the only form of the language I have access to - I have mostly been learning Albanian from watching television with Albanian subtitles, which are written in the standard language, as they are, in a way, official text; likewise, I have been relying heavily on the Internet, and all grammar explanations and dictionaries there concern the standard language only. Second of all, there are various features of Albanian non-standard dialects I don't like, such as the q-ç and gj-xh mergers, or the lack of rhotacism in words like "femër". Third of all, I associate the standard language with some prestige, for the simple reason that it is the standard language. It somehow automatically feels proper. If I were to learn dialects, I would feel that my learning is somewhat purposeless. Anyway, I think that you'll find that most language students learn the standard form the foreign language they have taken on. I haven't met anyone learning Scots rather than GA/RP or Bavarian rather than Hochdeutsch yet.
     

    AgonSK

    New Member
    Italian and Albanian
    I mean it (folsha) is the most common among the gheg dialects. Anyway the conjugations you wrote are all correct and since you're studying the standard language you should use them and they would be understood by every speaker, even if they are different from the dialectal ones.

    In addition to this I can say that you're knowledge of the grammar is pretty good ;)

    As for your choice to learn the standard language..I knew you would say that it's obvious one wants to study it since it is the standard form, but I would've never guessed the rhotacism and mergers thing :) ...for "rhotacism" you mean the R sound similar to the english one?
     
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