All dialects: كلني (noun + ـني)

wriight

Senior Member
English (US) / Arabic (Lebanon)
Explanation first -- كلني "all of me" is the only common, cross-dialectal example I'm aware of. The 'standard' form would be كلّي, but the -n- is inserted in some such words. I don't know why, but here are two more I know to occur in Lebanon:
  • هيْأتني hay2etne: the word هيأتــ is one way of expressing يبدو أنــ. You'd expect هيْأتي hay2te, but I hear the -n- form from my parents.
  • صَرني Sarrne: the base صرّ Sarr is an assimilated form of صرلــ Sarl- (from صار ل) and isn't used everywhere. Among people who do use it, صرّي should be expected -- as it's not originally an object -- but صرني does occur.
(There's also إشبني eshbne as in مدري شو إشبني, but it only this only fits here synchronically. Etymologically, اشب is from ايش ب, where ايش بيني is standard)

I went through a phase like a year ago where I'd use this ـني on every noun that referred to 'my self', like كلني ع بعضني, but not e.g. نصي when it meant "my half" (say, of a piece of food). It was definitely idiosyncratic... although "كلني ع بعضني" does return 6 hits when Googled, indicating I wasn't totally alone there.

So what other varieties does this ـني occur in? Is it more productive in any of them? / to what extent can it be generalized?
 
  • oopqoo

    Senior Member
    Hebrew - Israel
    This is indeed an interesting phenomenon. I would like to mention that كلني also occurs in Palestinian Arabic, plus, the assimilated form of صارلـ- in PA would be صلّ, so you'd have صلني. Another thing that sort of surprised me was that it's unidiomatic to say مزنخي / مغباي but rather you should say مزنخني / مغباني. I am also interested to hear about other words where this happens.
     

    Mahaodeh

    Senior Member
    Arabic, PA and IA.
    Explanation first -- كلني "all of me" is the only common, cross-dialectal example I'm aware of.
    I don't know how 'cross-dialectal' this is. This sound very Lebanese to me. It's not used in Palestinian Arabic, at least not in the West Bank and not in Jordanian Arabic; so it's not even cross Levantine. It's also not used in any form of Iraqi Arabic and I don't recall hearing from Egyptians, Sudanese and Emiratis (these are people I have had close contact with for years).

    Your other examples sound Lebanese to me too.

    I don't know if you already know this, but this noon is called نون الوقاية and is added before ياء المتكلم in verbs and in a few other places.

    in PA would be صلّ, so you'd have صلني.
    I've never heard this in PA, but it could be a Northern dialect thing.

    The interesting thing about this word is the إدغام in it. I've heard it with idghaam a lot, usually unintentionally, but I've never really heard it with a noon.

    Another thing that sort of surprised me was that it's unidiomatic to say مزنخي / مغباي but rather you should say مزنخني / مغباني.
    Actually, نون الوقاية is required here even in Classical Arabic (from which all dialects evolved). You may understand the reason if you look at the related threads about ما أفعل - The word is actually not a superlative noun but a verb. This is a contraction of ما أزنخني وما أغباني. I've never really heard it before without the noon.
     

    oopqoo

    Senior Member
    Hebrew - Israel
    Oh I should read about ما أفعل threads, I never knew it was a verb! I just took it as a given that I need to add ني and that's it.

    In terms of the other things I said, anything I report to you guys here is stuff that I have heard by (or was taught by) either people from the Nazareth area or Umm el-Fahem area. I wouldn't tell you anything I only assume is correct, I tell you what I know for a fact - even if it may be a fact that is only true about the one speaker I talked with, while all other PA speakers speak differently than he does.
     

    Hemza

    Senior Member
    French, Mor/Hijz Arabic (heritage)
    One example comes to my mind in Morocco, some people instead of saying عمري say عمرني (in the negative aspect only). For example,
    عمرني ما شفته instead of عمري ما شفته (the ما can also precede عمر).
    Except that, I don't think it occurs
     

    cherine

    Moderator
    Arabic (Egypt).
    I don't know how 'cross-dialectal' this is.
    I just want to confirm what Maha said. This feature doesn't exist in Egyptian Arabic. We say كُلِّي على بعضي, without the nuun.
    • هيْأتني hay2etne: the word هيأتــ is one way of expressing يبدو أنــ. You'd expect هيْأتي hay2te, but I hear the -n- form from my parents.
    • صَرني Sarrne: the base صرّ Sarr is an assimilated form of صرلــ Sarl- (from صار ل) and isn't used everywhere. Among people who do use it, صرّي should be expected -- as it's not originally an object -- but صرني does occur.
    (There's also إشبني eshbne as in مدري شو إشبني, but it only this only fits here synchronically. Etymologically, اشب is from ايش ب, where ايش بيني is standard)
    For those, we use مِتْهَيَّأْلي (it appears to me/I think), and بقالي ba2aali (it's been X time that...), and إيه اللي بِيَّا what's wrong with me (though مالي is more common).
     

    wriight

    Senior Member
    English (US) / Arabic (Lebanon)
    It's also not used in any form of Iraqi Arabic and I don't recall hearing from Egyptians, Sudanese and Emiratis (these are people I have had close contact with for years).
    I forgot to respond to this earlier, but I should say for the record that the very thing that got me to ask about this was actually an Iraqi motivational picture haha. Also, if you Google "اني كلني" in quotes, the first thing that comes up is a Tweet by an Iraqi account.
     

    Mahaodeh

    Senior Member
    Arabic, PA and IA.
    Also, if you Google "اني كلني" in quotes, the first thing that comes up is a Tweet by an Iraqi account.
    I have to admit that this is interesting. (It took several attempts to make it work, the first attempt gave me a Selene Deon song!).

    Maybe I have heard it but blocked it for some reason. I remember hearing كلياتني a lot, and كلّي a lot but not كلني! Maybe my brain classified it subconsciously with one of the other two so I can't remember it!
     

    momai

    Senior Member
    Arabic - Syria
    كلّي وكلني وكلياتي كلياتن مستخدمات بسوريا, كيفك فيّا:D
     
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