All dialects: false friends

[xebonyx]

Hello everybody,

I wanted to get your opinions on how non-native speakers can go about preventing themselves from being offensive when speaking a specific Arabic dialect, in a different country. I guess it's impossible to learn every word that may be acceptable in one place(s), and yet could trigger an intense emotion (whether physical or verbal) in another. This came to my mind because I remember saying a phrase which others were lighthearted about, and then got an opposite reaction to someone else of a different nationality. I'm sure there are many factors that could go into this as well, such as age, past experiences, personal and/or religious beliefs. How often does it cause issues amongst Arabs themselves?

السلام عليكم
أطلب منكم أن تشتركوا رأيكم في ما متوقع من الأجانب بالإشارة عندما تستخدم لعبارات غير مقبولة بين عرب من دول مختلفة.أحيانا نحن غير مدرك لمعاني الأخرى لبعض كلمات.الموضوع خطر على بالي لأني قد أخطاءت الكلام مع أحد الأصديقائي باستخدام عبارة وردود من الأشخاص ما عليها كانت جيدة بينما لم استلم نفس رد الفعل من الآخرين.أنا متأكدة أن تكون عوامل كثيرة تحدد أنواع الردود هذة, مثلا عمر, خبرات ماضية ,معتقدات دينية و شخصية,إلخ
كم مرة هذه مشكلة بين شعب العرب؟​

 

[Haroon]

Hello xebonyx, If you are just arousing issue , you should be more patient, but I think it is an occasional event ( the differences due to dialects difference), may happen or not , may have a serious consequences or not...waiting from others' opinions.

 

[yasmeena]

How often does it cause issues amongst Arabs themselves?

Quite often. When I first left Lebanon, and haven't had much contact with Arabs of different nationalites, this used to be a major concern for me. I got myself into countless embarrassing situations, and sometimes misunderstandings that led to hard feelings or even slight problems. I remember saying a very common Lebanese expression once, which didn't have an equivalent in the Egyptian dialect, but held a very embarrassing meaning when translated literally. Those who were present kept laughing and laughing while I fought hard to hold my tears back. They still tease me about it till now. Another time I asked a friend of another nationality if she had a certain thing or not, she answered with one word which I decided to translate as a 'yes' when it actually meant a 'no'. That caused a major problem later.

I could go on and write pages about this, but I'll tell you how I managed to get over it instead. Naturally, with time I got pretty familiar with other dialects, and I set two golden rules for myself :

1- Never use local idioms/proverbs/expressions with Arabs of different nationalities.

2- Speak as much Egyptian as possible ! (I believe it is the dialect most Arabs do not misinterpret - terms and idioms).

I sometimes even express the same thought in more than one language, like repeating in English or French what I've just said in Arabic.

 

[xebonyx]

Hello xebonyx, If you are just arousing issue , you should be more patient, but I think it is an occasional event ( the differences due to dialects difference), may happen or not , may have a serious consequences or not...waiting from others' opinions.

Thanks for your input Haroon!

Quite often. Naturally, with time I got pretty familiar with other dialects, and I set two golden rules for myself :

1- Never use local idioms/proverbs/expressions with Arabs of different nationalities.

2- Speak as much Egyptian as possible ! (I believe it is the dialect most Arabs do not misinterpret - terms and idioms).

I sometimes even express the same thought in more than one language, like repeating in English or French what I've just said in Arabic.

Ah, very interesting advice. Thank you for your sharing what you've experienced with this. I would think that some would be patient knowing that I'm not a native speaker, but I've definitely gotten the occassional angry reaction for not knowing what implications one word may have in one dialect, that doesn't exist in another.

 

[Mahaodeh]

I've seen some pretty funny incidents regarding this. One was that in Iraq, the word صدرية is used for a kitchen apron, a doctor's coat and a type of dress worn with a blouse under it for girls' school uniform. In Jordan صدرية is a bra; once a friend, who was a doctor, was talking and he said "لبست الصدرية بسرعة ورحت...الخ", naturally the Jordanians around started laughing because in their understanding he just said "I put the bra on quickly...etc."

My brother had an incident in Yemen, he stopped a taxi and asked how much it would cost to go to a certain place, the taxi driver gave a number and my brother thought that was too much so he suggested another, the driver said ماشي and my brother thought it was OK because in most places maashi comes from مشى يمشي فهو ماشي and it means OK, but it turned out that in Yemen it comes from ما هو بشيء and it means "that's not much"!

I've only once come across a case where it caused a problem; an Iraqi friend in Jordan was talking to this guy and he started telling her about a few things that she did wrong, the friend said jokingly "يعني أعتبر هاي رِزَالَة", note the kasra on the raa' in رِزَالَة; with a kasra it means "to tell someone off" or in Jordanian بهدلة; they guy was very upset and he suddenly left - a couple of days later he came back to apologize saying that he thought she was saying رَزَالَة which interestingly has the same meaning in Jordan and Iraq.

My experience tells me to just speak normally; only avoid words that are less likely to be understood by others or words that have a meaning that differs drastically from MSA - I don't think that using Egyptian Arabic is a solution because in fact it also has many words that may be misunderstood by others.

Most people are understanding in my experience.

 

[yasmeena]

My experience tells me to just speak normally; only avoid words that are less likely to be understood by others or words that have a meaning that differs drastically from MSA - I don't think that using Egyptian Arabic is a solution

I think this depends on the nature of your 'social life' and the situation. If you occasionally meet a couple of Arabs of different nationalities, or you already know the people, then what you've suggested is exactly what I would do. Most of my friends are not Lebanese, and I still speak perfect Lebanese with them - with as little use of local idioms as possible.

But when you live in a community of a few dozen nationalites جالية عربية, where you meet new people every day, sometimes just for once, and have to deliver a certain message to them, you find yourself willing to let go of your dialect for practicality.

Of course when I say 'speak Egyptian', I don't mean pretend you are Egyptian and go إزيك عاملة إيه ياختي . I mean use certain Egyptian terms - sometimes even idioms - which, in my experience , are widely understood. For example, I found out more than once that when I say أنا رايحة I see faces waiting for the rest of my sentence. To make my life easy, now I use أنا ماشية. Another word that always causes confusion is بكير(early) which gets mixed up with بكرا. I use بدري instead. If something seems to be wrong with someone, and I ask in my Lebanese dialect : شو إشبك , I think I would only add to her troubles A simple مالك does the job. I sometimes even use MSA for terms like الآن.

 

[Mahaodeh]

But when you live in a community of a few dozen nationalites جالية عربية, where you meet new people every day, sometimes just for once, and have to deliver a certain message to them, you find yourself willing to let go of your dialect for practicality.

I actually live in Dubai so the only Arab country that I don't recall meeting anyone from as of yet is Moritania.

Anyway, what surprises me is that a Lebanese has to start using Egyptian lexicon! Levantine dialects in general are quite understandable (Lebanese songs and Syrian TV series, not to mention Lebanese talk show hosts are all over the place), plus, most of their lexicon is shared by many countries and is used in the "generic dialect" of Arabic TV advertisements.

I'd say that Iraqi, Yemeni, and Darja are the most difficult, followed by Sudanese - speakers of these dialects have to give up some of their more local terminology (I can think of the Iraqi قريولة as an extreme example) but the vast majority of what you say can be used without a problem.

 

[ayed]

It is known that the word"samm" in Saudi and some dialects connotes"yes".It means "name what you want me to bring or do for you.

Real incident:
An Egyptian professor teaches at a Saudi College often hears most of his students respond "samm", na3am" except a student who used to answer in "samm"Whenver the professor asks that student, the student answer"samm".One day, the professor asked that student to show up at his office.

Profesor:"Why have you answered me in "samm"?
Student:"What is the problem, professor?"
profesor:"You don't think that I don't know what the word"samm" means?","it means "poison"?

 

[HBZ55]

[Moderator's Note: Merged with a previous thread]
Can you list examples of words that have a meaning in a specific dialect but a different meaning in another dialect, specifically where this false friendship seems funny to you.
The only thing I could think of is "yboss" in Egyptian Arabic which means "to look at" but means "fart" in Tunisian Arabic. I always laugh when I hear that one in an Egyptian movie.
Can you provide examples of some false friends but with sometimes hilariously different meanings?

 

[المعتصم]

l know one:
in Lebanese انت حليان means you've become more beautiful, but in Kuwaiti it means you are corroded
another thing:
in cities in Palestine - especially Nablus - children call the school canteen مقصف but some others -in villages- think that مقصف is a cannon
I might find other funny things
best wishes!

 

[Abu Rashid]

I heard that عافية in some north african dialect (perhaps tunisian?) means fire, so the common phrase الله يعطيك العافية doesn't sound too appealing to them.

دولاب in Egyptian is a closet, whilst in most other dialects it's a wheel.

 

[azeid]

دولاب in Egyptian is a closet, whilst in most other dialects it's a wheel.

Thanks for this information

 

[WadiH]

In a previous thread people mentioned شكشوكة, which in most Arabic countries refers to an egg and tomato-based breakfast dish, but in Sudan means loose woman.

دولاب in Egyptian is a closet, whilst in most other dialects it's a wheel.

Actually we (in S. Arabia) use دولاب for closet as well.

 

[Mahaodeh]

In Iraq it's used for a cupboard, not a closet.

 

[WadiH]

Tomato Tom-ah-to (we don't distinguish between the two ).

 

[jemi]

An other one : in Egyptian dialect الفرخ أو الفرخة means chicken or a hen but in algerian dialect and especially in my region it means illegitimate child..so it always makes us laugh when we hear it.

 

[HBZ55]

We use it for both meanings here in Tunisia, and that sometimes leads to some confusions.

 

[azeid]

An other one : in Egyptian dialect الفرخ أو الفرخة means chicken or a hen but in algerian dialect and especially in my region it means illegitimate child..so it always makes us laugh when we hear it.

This is not right, " الفرخة " and its plural " الفراخ " means chickens in the Egyptian dialect and in Upper Egypt they used " فروجة " and its plural " فروج " " Farrooj" too.
But " الفرخ " is used to refer to a bad man like " ديوث " in Arabic (I don't know the proper equivalent in English) and i am not sure if some people in some regions use it to refer to illegitimate child.

 

[Abu Rashid]

In Iraq it's used for a cupboard, not a closet.

They're actually the same thing for most intents and purposes. I would normally say cupboard, but wasn't sure if all people would be familiar with the term, since it's not as universally known. So I used the more American term closet.

 

[Ghabi]

But " الفرخ " is used to refer to a bad man like " ديوث " in Arabic (I don't know the proper equivalent in English) and i am not sure if some people in some regions use it to refer to illegitimate child.

Good to know. It's "pimp" or "cuckold' in English.

 

[kifaru]

I think that may be wrong since pimp and cuckold are not at all related in english.

 

[Josh_]

Yes, I agree. A cuckold is a man who knows his wife is cheating on him and condones it, at least to my knowledge. So if a الفرخ or ديوث is some sort of a bad man, then that would not be the correct translation into Enlgish.

They're actually the same thing for most intents and purposes. I would normally say cupboard, but wasn't sure if all people would be familiar with the term, since it's not as universally known. So I used the more American term closet.

The Australian usage must be different from the American usage. They may technically have the same denotative meaning (being used for storage and all), but they are used for different things. A cupboard is generally found only in the kitchen areas and is for storage of utensils and and other kitchen/food related paraphernalia. Also, a cupboard is raised off the ground and is not generally built into the frame of the house. It is a commonly used word in American English. A closet on the other hand is larger, usually spanning from floor to ceiling and is built into the frame of the house.

As far as the topic at hand, this is not so much funny as it is confusing. A خوخ in Egyptian (and most dialects in which it is used, I believe) means peach, but in Syrian it is used for plums, the Syrian word for peach being درّاق.

 

[Ghabi]

Yes, I agree. A cuckold is a man who knows his wife is cheating on him and condones it, at least to my knowledge. So if a الفرخ or ديوث is some sort of a bad man, then that would not be the correct translation into Enlgish.

I think Azeid means "pimp", but since ديوث also refers to a "cuckold", I wrote that too by the way and forgot to clarify. My bad.

 

[Abu Rashid]

Josh,

Yes, I agree. A cuckold is a man who knows his wife is cheating on him and condones it, at least to my knowledge. So if a الفرخ or ديوث is some sort of a bad man, then that would not be the correct translation into Enlgish.

ديوث is exactly what you just described. A man who feels no jealousy or honour for his wife or other female relatives, and couldn't care less if they engage in debauchery with other men.

The Australian usage must be different from the American usage.

Yes they are different, hence the reason I used the American term, which most non-native English speakers might be more familiar with.

A closet on the other hand is larger, usually spanning from floor to ceiling and is built into the frame of the house.

In Australian usage that is a cupboard. We don't actually really use the term closet at all. Except when advertising a house for sale/rent perhaps, we would use the term 'robe' for a closet that holds clothes, and perhaps linen closet, but in everyday usage it's almost always cupboard for all built-in storage 'chambers', except for the one in the kitchen that holds food, we call it a pantry. A free standing closet is pretty much always called a robe here, normally a wardrobe.

Note: We do use the term 'closet' in some phrases borrowed from the U.S like "in the closet" to indicate something is hidden or not public knowledge, like 'closet alcoholic'.

 

[Mahaodeh]

They're actually the same thing for most intents and purposes. I would normally say cupboard, but wasn't sure if all people would be familiar with the term, since it's not as universally known. So I used the more American term closet.

Ok, I think I didn't make myself clear enough; I mean by cupboard, the kitchen cupboards or any other similar cupboard like the ones you have in dining rooms and living rooms and offices.

I understood closet to mean wardrobe (BE) = the one in the bedroom where you put your clothes. In Iraq they distinguish between the two, the first is duulaab, the second is kantoor.

 

[Abu Rashid]

I mean by cupboard, the kitchen cupboards or any other similar cupboard like the ones you have in dining rooms and living rooms and offices.

I think you mean a cabinet right? A free-standing piece of furniture, rather than an in-built recess/room? Seems that is the American usage of cupboard.

As the word itself seems to suggest, it was originally just a piece of wood (board) for laying cups and things out on. So it was probably originally just used for kitchen cupboards to begin with.

I'm not 100% sure of the particular usage of دولاب amongst Egyptians, but in Australia at least, Egyptians use it for cupboard. But then again, in Australia we only use the word cupboard and not closet. So it does tend to get a little confusing

That's why I thought I'd stick with the American-usage, as it's probably more universally known.

 

[Mahaodeh]

I think you mean a cabinet right? A free-standing piece of furniture, rather than an in-built recess/room? Seems that is the American usage of cupboard.

I don't know the difference in English; but in IA being free standing or built-in is irrelevent; كنتور is used for the big wardrobe you put your clothes and fabrics (such as linenwhere or towels). دولاب is for uses other than fabrics and includes kitchen appliances, books and papers (except for bookcases), hardwhere, general storage...etc. and usually consists of shelves or compartments.

 

[L.2]

In Egyptian زق
means 'push' but in Saudi it means dung or shit​

as kids we were laughing a lot when egyptians teachers said

فلانه نجحت بالزق
thought there is a difference in the two pronunciations of the word but I think everyone is aware of القاف turning into أ in Egyptian dialect.​

 

[HBZ55]

@L.2:
We have زق IN Tunisian too, but it's pronounced zagg, and it means bird shit.

 

[L.2]

Yes we too say zagg
in Saudi alQaf is pronounced as english g.
I always admire tunisian because as far as I know it's the only dialect that pronounces alQaf correctly

 

[nn.om]

الديوث هو الذي لا يغار على أهله. زوجته أو أمه أو أخته أو أياً كان من أهله.

"Gowwa" in the Egyptian dialect: داخل
"Gowwa" in the Kuwaiti dialect: قوة
"Gowwa" in the Dhofari dialect: رائحة عفنة

على فكرة، يقال إن الجَوِي في العربية الفصحى يعني الرائحة العنفة.

 

[WadiH]

Yes we too say zagg
in Saudi alQaf is pronounced as english g.
I always admire tunisian because as far as I know it's the only dialect that pronounces alQaf correctly

Well, leaving aside the usual discussion of whether this pronunciation is in fact "correct" or not, I'm pretty sure Tunisian Arabic uses q=g in many words, and many dialects pronounce "qaf" as an MSA "q" almost exclusively, e.g. northern Iraq, rural Syria and Palestine (especially among the Druse and Alawites), and northern Morocco. I might be wrong, but Algerian Arabic uses qaf=q about as often as Tunisian Arabic does.

"Gowwa" in the Kuwaiti dialect: قوة .

That brings up another example: "Gowwa" in Kuwait is a form of greeting, whereas elsewhere in the Peninsula, it means "strength."

 

[nn.om]

That brings up another example: "Gowwa" in Kuwait is a form of greeting, whereas elsewhere in the Peninsula, it means "strength."

Well, actually in Kuwait the greeting Gowwa also means strength. They say something like "عساك عالقوة" as a greeting and a pray as well: دعاء بأن يكون المُسلَّم عليه يتمتع بقوته الصحية والمالية وغير ذلك

I am not sure about that though.

 

[WadiH]

Yes, there is an etymological link between the two usages, and your guess is correct.

 

[HBZ55]

Yes we too say zagg
in Saudi alQaf is pronounced as english g.
I always admire Tunisian because as far as I know it's the only dialect that pronounces alQaf correctly

9aaf is pronounced as it is most of the time, but there are some words that use g instead.
Although the 9aaf pronunciation doesn't occur in all of the country, the southern Tunisian accent uses g instead most of the time.

 

[mostafa65]

in western saudia arabia the word بعبوصhave volgar meaning of poking some one in the buttock with hand, while in Tunisia i think it mean a queue or line of standing people
so do not say شد البعبوص Tunisians guys?HUHUHUHUHHUHUHUH

 

[HBZ55]

@mostafa65:
Ba3booS actually means tail in Tunisian Arabic.

 

[Razin']

And we do have the exact same vulgar meaning for the verb "بعبص" (not proud of having said it..) in Tunisian too! Interesting..

 

[celestehopes]

My brother had an incident in Yemen, he stopped a taxi and asked how much it would cost to go to a certain place, the taxi driver gave a number and my brother thought that was too much so he suggested another, the driver said ماشي and my brother thought it was OK because in most places maashi comes from مشى يمشي فهو ماشي and it means OK, but it turned out that in Yemen it comes from ما هو بشيء and it means "that's not much"!

Could you please tell me what ماشي here means? What does the original مشى يمشي فهو ماشي that you mentioned mean? Thanks a lot!

 

[hiba]

ماشي in Yemeni means straight up "no" In other dialects it means "ok/yes"

 

[analeeh]

مشى يمشي or مشي يمشي or various other conjugations depending on dialect means 'walk', and by extension in some dialects (Egyptian and Shami, and I think other dialects may have borrowed ماشي from Egyptian media too or had this meaning for مشي as well) something like 'be OK' or 'work'. So ماشي means 'OK' or 'it will be OK' or 'yes' (as hiba says).

 

[Arabic_Police_999]

ماشي in Yemeni means straight up "no" In other dialects it means "ok/yes"

it's of two parts, ما and شي not from the verb مشى

 

[Hemza]

ماشي in Yemeni means straight up "no" In other dialects it means "ok/yes"

In Morocco (except among Hassania speakers) and in Algeria, "ماشي" is used with a close meaning to the Yemeni one. It means "it's not", like "مو/ما" and "مش" in other dialects. Example:

"ماشي هو"= it's not him.

As an example of false friend, I would say "طبونة" in Moroccan which is a pretty vulgar word ("vagina" but with a pejorative meaning I think) while in Tunisia, it simply means "bread". I let you guess the possible diplomatic incident if a Tunisian asks a Moroccan "تحب تاكول طبونة؟"

 

[六道仙人]

Yes we too say zagg
in Saudi alQaf is pronounced as english g.
I always admire tunisian because as far as I know it's the only dialect that pronounces alQaf correctly

I heard some Syrians use it, as well. As far as I know those from the region Dir-el Zour( on the border with Iraq), and those from Darra (درعة).

 

[momai]

As an example of false friend, I would say "طبونة" in Moroccan which is a pretty vulgar word ("vagina" but with a pejorative meaning I think) while in Tunisia, it simply means "bread". I let you guess the possible diplomatic incident if a Tunisian asks a Moroccan "تحب تاكول طبونة؟"

In Syria
Tabo~n is a trunk (car)
Tabune is a person's buttocks

I heard some Syrians use it, as well. As far as I know those from the region Dir-el Zour( on the border with Iraq), and those from Darra (درعا).

I am not quite sure about Dérelzour since it's heavily influenced by Iraqi Arabic ,but as far as I know people from Dar3a don't use it.It could be that you heard some Syrians trying to speak Khaliji or are influenced by Khaliji ,I might be wrong as well who knows .Any way, the word (if it's used somewhere in Syria)must be very rare.

 

[celestehopes]

Thanks everyone!

 

[elroy]

In Palestinian Arabic "haddi" means "calm down" but in Lebanese Arabic it means (or at least can mean) "hold onto/grab." Very different meanings that actually led to confusion one time when a Lebanese guy held something out to me and said "haddi." I was confused because I didn't think I needed to calm down!

 

[Hemza]

It's been a while since I wrote on this thread. I found it again thanks to another thread. And since then, I met what became my closest friend, an Egyptian, and... what should have occured, has occured . Hundreds of misunderstandings because of our different Arabic dialects (moreover, me not being a native speaker, it makes things harder). I speak a mix of Moroccan and Hassaniya dialect (AKA Mauritanian) which sounds bedouinish (= hard to understand, not counting the fact it is Maghrebi...).

Here a small list of all the misunderstandings which happened with him. I'll start with him and his misunderstandings about me (it's longer than mine ):

بزبوز= this word in my dialect means "a faucet/tap" while if I'm not wrong, in Egyptian it may sound vulgar .
عيط= in my dialect, it means to call/to shout. This means to cry in Egypt.
كأس= the day I asked my friend أعطيني كأس, he told me that in Egypt, this may be understood as a glass of alcohol (but he understood me).
حوت= means fish in my dialect. I won't forgot his face the day I asked him تبغي ناكلوا حوت؟
حوش= means home in my dialect (beside دار/خيمة). The day I texted him: أنت قاعد في الحوش ولا برى؟ I got as a reply: "وأنا يابني معزة؟".
أيه= it means "yes" but in Egypt, "what?"
عقب= this one means "to follow" in my dialect but it is pronounced "3gab" thus more or less close to the Egyptian pronunciation of عجب which left him confused.
خش= this verb means "to hide" or "to hide something" but in Egyptian, it means "to enter".
رقد= in my dialect= to sleep. He misunderstood it with "to lay down" although it may also bear this meaning in my dialect.

Now, one of the misunderstandings I had with the Egyptian dialect:
دماغ= this word in Egypt means "head" but in my dialect, it means "brain".
بق= In Egypt, it means "mouth" but in my dialect, it means "a megaphone" .

I can't remember right now what are the others but there were definitely other misunderstandings from me too and often it ends on either funny or very awkward scenes.

This is without counting all the lexicon differences we have and we (used to) ignore about each other (although my improvement in Egyptian is much better than his improvement in understanding my speech haha).

And I keep hearing "يا نهار أسود على الكلام" when I speak or "دي شتيمة عندنا" he's still not used to my "odd" dialect.

 

[Mahaodeh]

I find it interesting how some words seem to 'skip' regions!
عيط means to shout/call in Iraq, it means to call in Lebanon but not in Syria or Palestine.
حوش means house as well as courtyard in Iraq, but while it's understood in the Levant it's not used in that way and it seems to have totally skipped Egypt!
عقب pronounced 3ugub in Iraq means 'after' or 'following' (ex. عقب باكر = the day after tomorrow) and it seems to have skipped both the Levant and Egypt!
رقد also means to sleep in most gulf dialects but not in Iraq or the Levant.

----

I remembered one: دزّ = dizz in Palestinian Arabic means "to push" or "to nudge", whereas in Iraqi Arabic it means "to send".

 

[momai]

I find it interesting how some words seem to 'skip' regions!
عيط means to shout/call in Iraq, it means to call in Lebanon but not in Syria or Palestine.

I am not sure if this is what you meant but anyway, in Syria, عيّط means the samething as in Iraqi.

حوش means house as well as courtyard in Iraq, but while it's understood in the Levant it's not used in that way and it seems to have totally skipped Egypt!

Interesting. When I hear the word حوش I think of something similar to بستان. Courtyard is either أرض الدار or جنينة in Syrian.