All dialects: just (inside the box)

Xavierfr1

New Member
English
How would one say " just" when describing a location in Arabic (colloquial/standard)?

E.g.
1) He stood just inside the box.
2) The ball had just crossed the line
3) Just beyond the first traffic lights.

Thank you in anticipation.
 
  • wriight

    Senior Member
    English (US) / Arabic (Lebanon)
    The first and third use a different sense of "just" than the second, or at least they do when translated. In Lebanese Arabic (which I think lines up with general Levantine except for #2), I would go with:

    1. وقف بقلب الكرتونة دغريwe2ef b2alb l-kartōne deghre.
      I pictured a cat when I read the sentence, personally, so كرتونة is "cardboard box". A different word would go there if you meant a guy standing inside a shipping container or something. (There's not quite any one-size-fits-all name like "box")

    2. كانت الطابة بعدها قالطة عن الخطkēnt T-Tābe ba3da 2ālTa 3an l-5aTT.
      Some regions construct the past perfect as كانت قلطت rather than كانت قالطة. Also, قلط as a verb isn't in common use AFAIK, but even though I hardly use it myself I'm not sure of a better way to say "to pass beyond". Maybe طالعة عن instead of قالطة عن.

    3. بعد الإشارة دغريba3d l-2ishāra deghre.

    (Edit: fixed pronunciation! The majority pronounce it deghre rather than doghre.)

    The word دغرِي means "quickly", "straight", or "directly", and it's the latter couple senses that are used here. بعد has two overlapping adverbial meanings, either "still" or "just barely", which are disambiguated by context. (Other Levantine dialects use a different construction for each of the two, so they don't need to rely on context, and I don't know about other Arabic dialects in general. Note that the use of بعد in #3 is different, of course, and it instead means "after".)
     
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    Xavierfr1

    New Member
    English
    Thank you so much !! Thanks for the response and I see what you mean about different sentences requiring slightly different manipulation so to speak, but in general دغري and بعد are good words to use to describe it in the shami dialect!! Btw. I suppose wasn't clear I was thinking more like the box in football as in the penalty area! ;)
    شكرا والله ما قصرت !
    وبالنسبة لغير بلدان؟ هاي الدغري مثلا يستخدموها بنفس الطريقة في مصر أو بالعراق أو بالخليج مثلا؟ ا
     

    Mahaodeh

    Senior Member
    Arabic, PA and IA.
    I'd have to say that it depends on what exactly is meant by the 'just' up there. I'll have to make some assumptions. Since you said 'location', I'll exclude 'just' with the meaning of 'a moment or less ago' or 'at this very moment'. I'm also going to exclude the meaning of 'only' even though 'only' can refer to a location.

    I'll talk about Palestinian Arabic (PA) and Iraqi Arabic (IA).

    1) He stood just inside the box. I'm assuming here that the box is quite large, and he was near the mouth of the box, inside but barely so if he takes one step back he would be outside again. I'm not going to assume that the box barely fits him.
    PA: واقف يادوب جوة الكرتونة
    IA: وافق يادوب داخل الصندوق
    Frankly, this one I'm not so sure about because the context doesn't seem to make sense to me.

    2) The ball had just crossed the line. I'm assuming here that the ball crossed the line by a fraction of a centimeter (or whatever could be considered 'just' in this context).
    PA: الطابة يادوب قاطعة الخط
    IA: الطوبة إسما عابرة الخط

    3) Just beyond the first traffic lights. I'm assuming it means 'right beyond the traffic lights, there is nothing separating it from the traffic lights.
    PA: بعد الإشارة ع طول
    IA: رأسا ورا الترفك

    Note: In Palestinian Arabic دغري might be used here, but it's more likely to be understood as 'straight ahead', the above are more likely to be used. In Iraq I've never heard this word used although they know what it means.
     

    fenakhay

    Member
    French (France) / Arabic (Morocco)
    I'll give the equivalent in my Moroccan Arabic dialect. And since the English "just" holds a lot of meanings, I'll give you the equivalent of the sentences in English with what I understood.

    1) وقف فالصندوق • wqaf fe-S-Sanduq. (He stood inside the box)
    I don't think there is an equivalence to your sentence in Moroccan Arabic.

    2) عاد دازت الكورة من على الخط • 3ad dazet el-kura men 3la l-khat

    3) من بعد الضو الاحمر نيشان • men ba3d eD-Do la-7mar nishan
     

    apricots

    Senior Member
    English - US
    I'd have to say that it depends on what exactly is meant by the 'just' up there. I'll have to make some assumptions. Since you said 'location', I'll exclude 'just' with the meaning of 'a moment or less ago' or 'at this very moment'. I'm also going to exclude the meaning of 'only' even though 'only' can refer to a location.

    I'll talk about Palestinian Arabic (PA) and Iraqi Arabic (IA).
    Maha, what about the word يَمّ?
     

    Xavierfr1

    New Member
    English
    I'd have to say that it depends on what exactly is meant by the 'just' up there. I'll have to make some assumptions. Since you said 'location', I'll exclude 'just' with the meaning of 'a moment or less ago' or 'at this very moment'. I'm also going to exclude the meaning of 'only' even though 'only' can refer to a location.

    I'll talk about Palestinian Arabic (PA) and Iraqi Arabic (IA).

    1) He stood just inside the box. I'm assuming here that the box is quite large, and he was near the mouth of the box, inside but barely so if he takes one step back he would be outside again. I'm not going to assume that the box barely fits him.
    PA: واقف يادوب جوة الكرتونة
    IA: وافق يادوب داخل الصندوق
    Frankly, this one I'm not so sure about because the context doesn't seem to make sense to me.

    2) The ball had just crossed the line. I'm assuming here that the ball crossed the line by a fraction of a centimeter (or whatever could be considered 'just' in this context).
    PA: الطابة يادوب قاطعة الخط
    IA: الطوبة إسما عابرة الخط

    3) Just beyond the first traffic lights. I'm assuming it means 'right beyond the traffic lights, there is nothing separating it from the traffic lights.
    PA: بعد الإشارة ع طول
    IA: رأسا ورا الترفك

    Note: In Palestinian Arabic دغري might be used here, but it's more likely to be understood as 'straight ahead', the above are more likely to be used. In Iraq I've never heard this word used although they know what it means.
    Thank you very much to you both, for your detailed and speedy responses !! May I just clarify what the iraqi word used in no. 2 is "اسما" and how does one pronounce it? Is that a tanwin on the end? does it come from اسم ?
     

    Mahaodeh

    Senior Member
    Arabic, PA and IA.
    Maha, what about the word يَمّ?
    This means 'beside', similar to the Levantine جنب or the MSA بجانب أو بجوار. I don't see it applying to any of the three sentences.
    May I just clarify what the iraqi word used in no. 2 is "اسما" and how does one pronounce it? Is that a tanwin on the end? does it come from اسم ?
    Yes, it is related to اسم. I'm not sure if it's a borrowing from MSA or it's an old remnant from CA that retained the tanween as part of the word like شكرا or رأسا or أهلا وسهلا (in Iraqi Arabic the tanween in the latter is clearly pronounced unlike in Levantine where it's pronounced an alif).

    What's meant by it is 'the ball has crossed the line merely by name', it's used to mean 'slightly' or 'barely', or as in this example 'just'. It comes from the idea that something can be 'technically' considered to be something. A clearer example might be الشباك اسما مفتوح, I would understand here that the window is so slightly open that while it's technically open, realistically it's closed had it not been for the that 5 mm between the window and the frame.
     

    Xavierfr1

    New Member
    English
    This means 'beside', similar to the Levantine جنب or the MSA بجانب أو بجوار. I don't see it applying to any of the three sentences.

    Yes, it is related to اسم. I'm not sure if it's a borrowing from MSA or it's an old remnant from CA that retained the tanween as part of the word like شكرا or رأسا or أهلا وسهلا (in Iraqi Arabic the tanween in the latter is clearly pronounced unlike in Levantine where it's pronounced an alif).

    What's meant by it is 'the ball has crossed the line merely by name', it's used to mean 'slightly' or 'barely', or as in this example 'just'. It comes from the idea that something can be 'technically' considered to be something. A clearer example might be الشباك اسما مفتوح, I would understand here that the window is so slightly open that while it's technically open, realistically it's closed had it not been for the that 5 mm between the window and the frame.
    Thank you again for an ever accurate, informative and interesting response, with added etymology! Interestingly what you described in my region of England we describe as " closing the window TO" - it means more or less, but not quite fully. شكرا !!!! :D
     

    Xavierfr1

    New Member
    English
    Syria:

    Still not sure what Xavierfr1 wants to express here!


    الطابة كانت دوبا قاطعة الخط

    فورا من بعد الاشارة

    Thank you for your response for the Syrian dialect!

    I apologise about the first example it was a very unclear example!

    "The box" means "the penalty area" in football, I think you say منطقة الجزاء or something like that. So I meant a football term, and didn't explain it very well! You could replace with just inside the area... maybe يا دوب داخل المنطقة ؟!؟! :D thanks again!!!
     

    momai

    Senior Member
    Arabic - Syria
    Thank you for your response for the Syrian dialect!

    I apologise about the first example it was a very unclear example!

    "The box" means "the penalty area" in football, I think you say منطقة الجزاء or something like that. So I meant a football term, and didn't explain it very well! You could replace with just inside the area... maybe يا دوب داخل المنطقة ؟!؟! :D thanks again!!!
    Maybe شي حاطط لسا اجرو بمنطقة الجزاء
     
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