(or "hashish").The same in Egyptian Arabic.
دبشة?? I would have confused this with دبش (used in some areas in Morocco to mean "clothes/stuff"
I say قزبور for coriander
In Palestinian Arabic, حشيش is "grass"
كرافس in Morocco means celery.
مقدونس to my knowledge is the standard (or rather standardised) word.
It could be pronounced with a س in Iraqi Arabic as well, I'm not sure, I haven't listened that carefully... I suppose the proximity with Turkey has contributed to the prevalence of saying معدنوس in Iraq (parsley is maydanoz in Turkish).
I suppose these plants are more or less related to each other hence the name كرفس/كرافس may have had different use either according to the location and/or the era. I have no example right now in mind but I think it's not the only case of false friend across the dialects because of the confusion between two different but nevertheless close species.
In فاس as well, الاقامة is used beside نعناع for "mint" but I didn't know about ربيع. Look at what I found about اقامة origin:
No, كرافس is parsley in Iraqi (alongside جعفري and معدنوز), not coriander. I have learned this when cooking with Iraqi people
I cannot recall ever cooking celery in Iraqi :-D I would just call it كرفس like in standard, but they might have another word for it. I should try to ask around a bit. I cannot even remember which one of my Iraqi acquaintances called parsley كرافس, but I know it happened. And now that I got to my dictionaries, I see that the Georgetown Dictionary of Iraqi Arabic also indicates كرافس refers to parsley (but it doesn't have an entry for celery).Oops!
That's good to know. Do you happen to know what they call celery?
Van Ess indicates celery as كرفَس krafas and parsley as كرفْس krafs.
Interesting, thank you for all these! I suppose كغفس and خضغة are Maslawi forms, since they have غ instead of ر, which is a typical feature of areas around Mosul, right?
Palestinian Arabic seems very close to MSA
I think this is rather due to the fact that as in some other instances, some words used in some dialects have been standardised (I think it is the case for these herbs) and not the other way around (the same can be said about fish, while سمك is the standard word, حوت should be as much correct but is not standard today since Arabic "recent" standardisation/modernisation is mainly the result of a huge work provided by Syrians/Egyptians if I'm not wrong). In many languages, food related vocabulary differences (amongst other fields) often relies on geographical location hence when you standardise a language, you must get rid of all the variations/words found across and keep one stance.
In some ways, it is; in other ways, it's not! Just like any other dialect.
Given what's been said in this thread, that makes a lot of sense! If the origin of the word for "parsley" is the Ancient Greek word for "Macedonia," then it would make sense that the use of ب instead of م was a later development that only occurred in certain dialects, and that MSA "borrowed" the word from one of those dialects. Otherwise, we would expect م and not ب.
No, كرافس is parsley in Iraqi (alongside جعفري and معدنوز), not coriander. I have learned this when cooking with Iraqi people
I don’t know about dictionaries, but I have never heard معدنوز or جعفري.
I suppose معدنوز with a ز was just my mistake, because I was thinking of the Turkish word that ends in a z. I am surprised to hear that coriander is also called كرفس! My Iraqi friends say كزبرة, but it could also be that they use that word because there are often speakers of other dialects around. Then again, it is not surprising that certain words have different meanings in different areas. Super interesting in any case!
In Morocco, you can say
Indeed, MSA borrowed from dialects, or rather MSA borrowed from the use of the speakers who introduced the words into MSA. By the way, when I said Syrians, I meant Palestinians/Lebanese/Syrians all together, I was pointing at Greater Syria at the time when standardisation/modernisation occurred. So that's no surprise if words used in these dialects (Egyptian, شامي) most notably related to food, made their way into MSA while the words used in the Maghreb, Arabia, Sudan and Iraq, didn't (معدنوس may be a good example to illustrate this). For instance, how one would say "basil" if he had to write a text in MSA? Or peas? There are great chances that anyone will respectively use ريحان and بازيلاء even if these words either have a different meaning or aren't used in the person's native dialect (I mean in a broad way, no one prevents a person from using the words he/she is used to).
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I know that you mean the Maghreb but to me, North African dialects includes Chadian, Egyptian and Sudanese (which are North African countries as well). So I think Maghrebi dialects is more accurate though many people often mix Maghreb with North Africa.
Linguistically, “North African” refers to the Maghrebi dialects only.
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