All dialects: segment (of orange), clove (of garlic)

Discussion in 'العربية (Arabic)' started by Ghabi, Feb 9, 2019.

  1. Ghabi

    Ghabi AL/OL/Ar/Zh mod

    Hong Kong
    Cantonese
    Hello. Inspired by the pith thread, I would like to know how to say "a segment" of orange or "a clove" of garlic (see photos)? As in, "a clove is enough, you don't need the whole thing". I think they use فَصّ in Egyptian: Can someone confirm? What about other dialects? Thanks!
    Orange_-_1.jpg 1200px-Opened_garlic_bulb_with_garlic_clove.jpg
     
  2. elroy

    elroy Sharp-heeled Mod

    Chicago, IL
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    In Palestinian:

    حِزّ بُرْدْقان (ḥizz burdʾān)
    سِن تُومة (sinn tōme)
     
  3. sun_shine 331995

    sun_shine 331995 Senior Member

    Arabic (mostly Egyptian)
    Right, it's "فَصّ" .
    فَصّ برتقال
    ق is pronounced as أ
    فَصّ توم
     
  4. It is ضرس for garlic and بت (bott*) for orange in Morocco
     
  5. elroy

    elroy Sharp-heeled Mod

    Chicago, IL
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    You use the same word for both? Interesting!

    (By the way, in Palestinian فَصّ means "fart" so this is a major false friend! :eek:)
     
  6. sun_shine 331995

    sun_shine 331995 Senior Member

    Arabic (mostly Egyptian)
    We useفَصّ for singular and فصوص for plural
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019 at 5:10 PM
  7. elroy

    elroy Sharp-heeled Mod

    Chicago, IL
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    Oh, I meant you use the same word for orange segment and garlic clove.

    In Palestinian, the verb “to fart” is فسى (with a س) or فَصَّص (with two ص’s) (or ضَرَّط, but that’s less common in my experience), while the noun (“fart”) is typically فَصّ (there’s also فَسوة as a noun of instance).
     
  8. Mahaodeh Senior Member

    London, UK
    Arabic, PA and IA.
    Also سنة توم (but I think the choice depends on context)
    I've also heard فص تومة/ توم but this might be affected by the Iraqi word.
    In Iraqi Arabic
    شيف برتقال (shiif)
    فُص ثوم (fuSS)
     
  9. elroy

    elroy Sharp-heeled Mod

    Chicago, IL
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    How so?

    (I don’t think I’ve ever heard سنة تومة.)
     
  10. Mahaodeh Senior Member

    London, UK
    Arabic, PA and IA.
    Something like: افرميلي سنة التومة هاي. I'm not very sure though, we don't use much garlic in our cooking at home :D.
     
  11. elroy

    elroy Sharp-heeled Mod

    Chicago, IL
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    Oh, interesting. I would say سن in that sentence.
     
  12. djara

    djara Senior Member

    Sousse, Tunisia
    Tunisia Arabic
    In TA, سن ثوم or سنة ثوم sin(na) thuum
    برج بردقان burj burdgaan . The same word 'burj' is used for melon and watermelon
     
  13. elroy

    elroy Sharp-heeled Mod

    Chicago, IL
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    We also use حِزّ for melons and watermelons, even though in English that would be "slice," not "segment."

    Does anyone know the etymology of حِزّ (Palestinian), بت (Moroccan), and/or شيف (Iraqi)? Is the Tunisian برج from the word for "tower," and if so, what is the relation?
     
  14. djara

    djara Senior Member

    Sousse, Tunisia
    Tunisia Arabic
    My feeling is that it is from the signs of the Zodiac.
     
  15. elroy

    elroy Sharp-heeled Mod

    Chicago, IL
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    Ah, as in, an orange has roughly twelve segments?
     
  16. djara

    djara Senior Member

    Sousse, Tunisia
    Tunisia Arabic
    Exactly!
    In TA, حَزّ(ة) is used for a mark (not a wound) left on human skin or the bark of a tree, etc. by a rope, a wire, etc. And, in Lisaan:
    والحَزّ: الفَرْض في الشيء، الواحدة حَزَّة، وقد حَزَزْت العود أَحُزّه حَزّاً. والحَزّ: فرض في العود والمِسْواك والعظم غير طائل.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 11, 2019 at 7:10 AM
  17. elroy

    elroy Sharp-heeled Mod

    Chicago, IL
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    In Palestinian, حِزّ also means "line," but I'm not sure I see a connection between "line" or "mark" and "segment" or "slice." :confused:
     
  18. tounsi51 Senior Member

    Dubai
    French, Tunisian Arabic
    We also use برج for a piece of sweet or cake (ex: برج بقلاوة) and as djara said, also for other type of fruits like melon or watermelon

    ex: برج بقلاوة
     
  19. djara

    djara Senior Member

    Sousse, Tunisia
    Tunisia Arabic
    Most melon types are naturally divided by lines that I would call حزّات (see photo below)
    A peeled orange also has similar separation lines between segments.
    Don't you think it fits?
    See photo here
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019 at 10:14 AM
  20. elroy

    elroy Sharp-heeled Mod

    Chicago, IL
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    That might be it! Nice! :thumbsup:
     
  21. Mahaodeh Senior Member

    London, UK
    Arabic, PA and IA.
    At least historically it did. The Lisaan starts by talking about slicing meat into long pieces, then he says: وقيل: الحزّ هو القطع من الشيء من غير إبانة (it is cutting into something without completely separating it), then he continues to talk about cutting halfway through things and making marks with a knife or sharp object. It seems that at some point the word meant slicing, then it started to mean cutting only halfway through something.
    :tick: Also used for melons, watermelons, and apples (when cut into slices with a knife)

    I didn't find anything in the roots ش و ف or ش ي ف (the latter was about seeing, probably the origin of the colloquial word in many dialects). But I did find in the root ش ف ف where he says: شِفّ معناه إلا شيء يسير, based on his discussion and examples it seems to mean 'a small part of something'. This might be the origin and then the pronunciation and usage changed with time.
     
  22. sun_shine 331995

    sun_shine 331995 Senior Member

    Arabic (mostly Egyptian)
    Usually we say فَصّ for anything consists of فصوص
    but we say قطعة or حِتَّه for other things as cake, watermelon
    قطعة كيك
    قطعة بطيخ
     
  23. Mahaodeh Senior Member

    London, UK
    Arabic, PA and IA.
    Just to make it clear, the شيف only refers to a slice such as this:
    [​IMG]
    If you cut it into smaller pieces then it's قطعة or حباية (diminutive of حبة = a piece).
     
  24. sun_shine 331995

    sun_shine 331995 Senior Member

    Arabic (mostly Egyptian)
    We say قطعة for both

    or شريحة/حِتِّه for slice andحِتَّه/قطعة for small pieces.
    Egyptians use the word حِتَّه for anything to mean a part
    People say حِتَّه even for orange but it's a general word means قطعة either it's فَصّ or not.
     

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