All dialects: very, a lot, many, a great deal

Discussion in 'العربية (Arabic)' started by djara, May 25, 2008.

  1. bearded

    bearded Senior Member

    Milano
    Italian
    Welcome back, elroy!
    عودًا حميدًا
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
  2. Hemza

    Hemza Senior Member

    Paris, France
    French, Mor/Hijz Arabic (heritage)
    I got a dictionary of Moroccan, Algerian, Tunisian and Egyptian dialects and French written at least before 1854. It never mentions when it is Maghrebi or Egyptian (although one can sometimes guess). I randomly found this, which may give a clue about Libyan هلبة Sans titre.png

    It is just a guess but here هلبة (meaning "tout à fait") may be Tunisian or Algerian (the dictionary seems to mainly focus on Algerian for historical reasons), what do you think @djara ? The author didn't include what would become later Libyan (either Tripolitanian, Fezzan or Cyrenaican dialects) so this picture can't refer to what is now Libyan.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2019
  3. cherine

    cherine Moderator

    Alexandria, Egypt
    Arabic (Egypt).
    Interesting find, Hamza. :) This واصل can be heard in Egyptian series taking place in Upper Egypt, but I only heard it in negative sentences with the meaning "[not] at all": ما اعرفش واصل I don't know at all/I absolutely don't know.
     
  4. djara

    djara Senior Member

    Sousse, Tunisia
    Tunisia Arabic
    No, هلبة is not used in Tunisian.
    In the picture you included, the only phrase that sounds Tunisian is بالمرة which means "not at all" (that is "tout à fait" in the negative sense, exactly as @cherine said in the previous post)
     
  5. Hemza

    Hemza Senior Member

    Paris, France
    French, Mor/Hijz Arabic (heritage)
    And me who was wondering from which planet could this واصل come from :D. Thank you :).

    Thank you. (بالمرة is also used in Morocco with this same meaning). But how could the author (Jean Joseph Marçais) get this هلبة? Is it a mistake? Or he may had included some Libyan words (although it is not claimed). Even the meaning seems à priori wrong to me as with other words (بالمرة, بالكل/بالكلية).
     
  6. sun_shine 331995

    sun_shine 331995 Senior Member

    Arabic (mostly Egyptian)
  7. This might be attributed to the geographic boundaries of political entities that change over the time; accordingly, The author must have recorded some words within what used to be ايالة تونس at the time...
     
  8. djara

    djara Senior Member

    Sousse, Tunisia
    Tunisia Arabic
    I think the whole entry is a mistake because a proper French translation of the following three phrases بالمرة، بالكلية، واصل would be "absolument pas; pas du tout..." (not at all, absolutely not) and not "tout à fait" (quite, exactly...)
    As far as I know Libyan هلبة is not used to mean either 'tout à fait' or 'pas du tout'
     
  9. Hemza

    Hemza Senior Member

    Paris, France
    French, Mor/Hijz Arabic (heritage)
    Thanks for the link, I've found this entry but I don't know if it is possible that the name of some character became a word which means "a lot"... And Eastern Libya doesn't use this word hence my doubts about this hypothesis...

    This also came to my mind afterwards (political boundaries didn't exist or at least, were much different from today's ones).

    That's must be the only conclusion. "Tout à fait" means the same thing as "absolument pas/pas du tout" yet it is always positive while the latters are negative and according to my modest knowledge, no one would say بالمرة or بالكل in a statement, only in negative sentences.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2019

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