All Nordic languages: jo / jú

[Joannes]

Dag allemaal,

For the moment, I don't have access to sources I should have access to and I was hoping you could help me. I'm wondering about the origin of the 'contrastive yesses' in your languages, I mean the 'yes' particles answering negative questions: jo in Norwegian/Danish/Swedish and jú in Icelandic. Were they in origin simply emphatic pronunciations of ja (Icelanders, imagine your accent aigu)? Or what?

Thank you in advance!

 

[DieuEtMonDroit]

I am not an expert in phonetic development so I'm afraid you'll have to wait for one of them to answer your question. Meanwhile I can tell you that there is a corresponding word in french. Ja being Oui and jo being si.

 

[Joannes]

I am not an expert in phonetic development so I'm afraid you'll have to wait for one of them to answer your question. Meanwhile I can tell you that there is a corresponding word in french. Ja being Oui and jo being si.

Yeah, thanks, there's others, although it largely seems to be confined to Indo-European languages.

I just read that Icelandic jú is the descendant of a particle jaur or jur that came to be used for positive/disagreeing answers to negative questions in the 15th century. It only makes me more curious about the origin of jo in the other Nordic languages...

 

[Wilma_Sweden]

It only makes me more curious about the origin of jo in the other Nordic languages...

The origin of jo in Swedish is debated, but the NE* claims that it's probably derived from ja and dates back to around the 15th century.

/Wilma

*=Nationalencyclopedin

 

[Joannes]

Thank you, Wilma, for looking that up for me. Did the NE also mention something about the other theories?

 

[Wilma_Sweden]

Did the NE also mention something about the other theories?

No, but the SAOB* did, i.e. the same as NE and, as an alternative, low German heritage (io), i.e. same origin as ju, the little adverb you insert in a declarative sentence to stress that something is already known, or that you expect agreement. Example:
Arnold Schwarzenegger var ju kroppsbyggare innan han blev skådespelare. = [We all know that] Arnold Schwarzenegger was a body builder before he became an actor.

I am often annoyed that ju does not have a direct translation equivalent in English!

/Wilma
*Svenska Akademins Ordbok

 

[sdr083]

I must admit that I had never thought about the origin of jo, but I do agree that it's useful and a bit annoying when I can't find an equivalent in other languages .

I just read that Icelandic jú is the descendant of a particle jaur or jur that came to be used for positive/disagreeing answers to negative questions in the 15th century.

The Norwegian dictionary says the origin is norse jaur, which fits with my idea that the origin in Norwegian must be the same as in Icelandic. In my dialect of Norwegian, which is generally rather archaic and has features in common with Icelandic, it's actually pronounced [jeu]. In Nynorsk it can also be written jau.

 

[Joannes]

No, but the SAOB* did, i.e. the same as NE and, as an alternative, low German heritage (io), i.e. same origin as ju, the little adverb you insert in a declarative sentence to stress that something is already known, or that you expect agreement. Example:
Arnold Schwarzenegger var ju kroppsbyggare innan han blev skådespelare. = [We all know that] Arnold Schwarzenegger was a body builder before he became an actor.

Thank you! Not a likely theory, though.

I am often annoyed that ju does not have a direct translation equivalent in English!

... or many other languages. I agree, modal particles rule!

The Norwegian dictionary says the origin is norse jaur, which fits with my idea that the origin in Norwegian must be the same as in Icelandic. In my dialect of Norwegian, which is generally rather archaic and has features in common with Icelandic, it's actually pronounced [jeu]. In Nynorsk it can also be written jau.

Very interesting. I agree with you that the origin for Norwegian and Icelandic should be the same. But then I'm still not sure what to believe for Danish/Swedish jo. Would it have had a different development?! You Norsemen rather tend to have things in common, don't you?

 

[In Search Of]

Hi,
I have'nt looked this up but I'd find it hard to believe that they shouldn't have the same origin. About 100 years ago Norwegian and Danish were the same and before that Norwegian and Icelandic were the same so...

Check this out: http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norsk_språk#Historie

 

[sdr083]

I wouldn't say that Danish and Norwegian were the same just because Norwegian was written with the Danish orthography... I do agree that it's very unlikely that jo should have different origins in Norwegian, Icelandish, Swedish and Danish. However, reading the info from the Norwegian dictionary again, I realized that it actually gives two different origins, one Norse and one German, for different uses of the word (look at II in Bokmål).

 

[In Search Of]

I wouldn't say that Danish and Norwegian were the same just because Norwegian was written with the Danish orthography...

Neida. Bokmålsbruker jeg vet du

Men jeg prøvde bare å si det samme som deg, disse språkene har utviklet seg sammen - selv om noen selvfølgelig kan ha blitt mer påvirket av andre språk oppigjennom.