All Scandinavian languages: Extended Adjective Constructions

J

Jay D

New Member
English (Am.)
In Dutch, German, and (to a much lesser extent) English, it's possible to modify nouns (prenominally) with adjective/participle-plus-complement constructions. Harbert's survey of the Germanic languages gives two rather unimaginative examples:

1.) De op dat ogenblik grote oppositie (Dutch, formal register, lit. the at the moment great opposition)

2.) Ein auf seine Kinder stolzer Vater (German, formal register, lit. an of his children proud father)

To these we can add an informal, if not also a bit showy, example from English:

3.) Our unworthy-of-being-reelected mayor

I'm wondering if constructions like these are possible in the Scandinavian languages, and, if they are, how common are they?
 
    • It's certainly possible in Swedish, the more formal the language, the more common and complex they are. Two examples:
    en för regionen ovanligt artrik vattenvegetation (a for the region unusually species-rich aquatic vegetation)
    den för tillfället lånade terriern (the at the moment borrowed terrier)

    The German example, however, would sound decidedly odd in Swedish, and the English construction would also need extensive re-construction! :)

    /Wilma
     
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    I think I remember a sentence that went something like "en over stokk og stein og andre i terrenget forekommende (something) hoppende hare" in my Norwegian textbook in school. It was used as an example of "embetsmannsnorsk", the sort of language that was (and sometimes, though rarely, still is) used by lawyers, representatives of government, etc. and which can be rather difficult for "regular" people to read. If I remember correctly there was some sort of reform of official language, so now everyone is supposed to avoid overly complicated sentence structure. Hence modern Norwegian "telegram style". ;)

    Anyways... Yes, I suppose this sort of construction is possible in Norwegian, but it's not used much. What Wilma says for Swedish goes for Norwegian as well: it's more common in formal language.
    Constructions like the third example, with hyphens between words, can be found only in informal language (I'll even admit to using them myself), and are probably a result of influence from English.
     
    I second everything sdr803 has said, and will add that I actually do use this style every now and then, but only in private emails and such, as a joke, a sort of ironic stuffiness.
     
    Jeg vil afgjort mene at de i første indlæg nævnte former med samme fordele som i de angivne sprog kan bruges også på dansk.
     
    Thanks, everyone, for your input!

    Wilma_Sweden said:
    The German example, however, would sound decidedly odd in Swedish, and the English construction would also need extensive re-construction! :)
    Click to expand...

    Interesting. Would it sound odd even in Formal Swedish? As these constructions go, it's a pretty basic example.

    Also, I'm curious how you would reframe the third example. A rough translation into Formal German would be: unser der Wiederwahl unwürdiger Bürgermeister (our of the reelection unworthy mayor]).
     
    "Vår för omval ovärdiga borgmästare" doesn't sound very odd in my ears, just that the adjective might rather be changed to "otänkbara" or "olämpliga". Whether the ending should be -a or -e is a matter of style. I wouldn't myself hesitate to use a contraction as "vår omvalsovärdige borgmästare".
     
    When I said re-construction, I was referring to the word order: The Dutch example can be translated literally, word-by-word, and make perfect sense in Swedish:
    Den för tillfället stora oppositionen :tick:

    The German example gets unidiomatic in Swedish:
    Den över sina barn stolte fadern :cross: We would probably just say Den stolte fadern - The proud father - the fact that it's his children that make him proud is implied and understood by most people.

    The English example gets even worse:
    Vår ovärdige att bli omvald borgmästare :cross: I think cucuyo's first example, Vår för omval ovärdige borgmästare :tick: is fine - I can't think of any other adjective that would fit the bill. In any case, we had to change the word order and word classes to make it acceptable, i.e. a reconstruction. I wouldn't dream of saying omvalsovärdige, personally, but it's creative, I'll give you that.

    Adding -e or -a endings to adjectives is NOT a matter of style, it's pure grammar! Adjectives modifying male individuals should end in -e in the definite singular form, whereas those modifying any other type of noun typically end in -a in the definite singular form. This is one of the few cases were Swedish takes natural gender into account, although people tend to forget these days... (Yes, I'm pedantic in this respect! :D )

    /Wilma
     
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    Well, that is style Wilma ;-)

    I too have lived in the far south, and I agree that genders are important in those vernaculars. However, here in Stockholm, the masculine form is almost extinct.
     
    Wilma_Sweden said:
    The German example gets unidiomatic in Swedish:
    Den över sina barn stolte fadern :cross: We would probably just say Den stolte fadern - The proud father - the fact that it's his children that make him proud is implied and understood by most people.
    Click to expand...

    Ah, I see. But what if we wanted to say something more specific and elaborate?

    For example: der auf seine wie Milch und Blut schönen Töchter stolze Vater (lit. the of his like milk and blood beautiful daughters proud father -- in idiomatic British English, a father proud of his English roses :)).

    I'm also curious to hear whether constructions like these are possible or common in Icelandic. I've been told many times that Icelandic and German are very similar grammatically.
     
    This topic is probably adequately answered already, but I thought I'd link to a real-life instance in Danish from the major newspaper Politiken: politiken.dk/indland/article713274.ece

    Notice the third-last paragraph, with the wording "den ellers af udseende fremsommelige Polo" (~ "the otherwise from the look of it peaceful Polo").

    It seems that these constructs are alive and well in Danish, even outside of bureaucratic contexts.
     
    Jay D said:
    Ah, I see. But what if we wanted to say something more specific and elaborate?

    For example: der auf seine wie Milch und Blut schönen Töchter stolze Vater (lit. the of his like milk and blood beautiful daughters proud father -- in idiomatic British English, a father proud of his English roses :)).

    I'm also curious to hear whether constructions like these are possible or common in Icelandic. I've been told many times that Icelandic and German are very similar grammatically.
    Click to expand...
    The presence of the preposition and the attributes is what makes it impossible, i.e. we can specify that he is proud within the noun phrase, but not what he is proud of. In Swedish, one solution is to separate the adjective phrase from the noun phrase and place it at the beginning of the sentence: Stolt över sina vackra döttrar, {verb} fadern... (Proud of his beautiful daughters, the father {verb}...).
    The reversed Swedish word order is a different grammatical issue that I won't go into here.

    I found a 'rule' that seems to work: the head of the adjective phrase (i.e. the adjective itself) wants to appear immediately before the noun it modifies when the adjective phrase is embedded as a pre-modifier in a noun phrase. If the adjective has a complement, such as proud of someone, happy about something, this complement has to appear after the adjective, both in English and Swedish. With such complements present, we can no longer put the adjective in front of the noun it modifies, and the resulting noun phrase gets ungrammatical.

    The Danish example, den ellers af udseende fredsommelige Polo, as well as the previous idiomatic Swedish examples, are OK because ellers, af udseende, för regionen, för tillfället are all adverbs, which can be placed before or after the adjective. By placing them before the adjective in the embedded adjective phrase, the adjective still ends up right before the noun where it should be.

    I don't know enough German to say anything but mereley observing that stoltzer does indeed appear right in front of its noun, Vater, and the same happens with the Dutch example (grote oppositie)...

    OK:
    {determiner} | {adverb1} | {adverb2} | {adjective} | {noun} :tick:
    den | ellers | af udseende | fredsommelige | Polo
    en | för regionen | ovanligt| artrik | vattenvegetation

    not OK:
    {determiner}     |     {adjective} | {preposition} | {complement} | {noun} :cross:
    * the | proud | of | his daughters | father
    {determiner} | {adjective} | {other complement} | {noun}:cross:
    * vår | ovärdige | att bli omvald | borgmästare

    * = ungrammatical/non-idiomatic

    /Wilma
     
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