All Slavic languages: Jesus + Maria as interjection

Encolpius

Encolpius

Senior Member
Hungarian
Hello, I wonder if all Slavic languages use "Jesus Maria" as expression of surprise, amazement, etc. Thanks.

Czech: Ježíšmarjá!
Polish: Jesus Maria!
 
    • Not in Macedonian.

    Macedonians usually use О боже! (O bože!) "Oh God!"; or Господи Боже! (Gospodi Bože!), Господe Боже! (Gospode Bože!) "Oh Lord God!"

    Господ (Gospod) "Lord"
    Бог (Bog) "God"
     
    I'm pretty sure it's a Catholic only thing. Orthodox Christians don't usually pay so much attention to Mary. The equivalents of the expression mentioned in the OP's post would be "О боже!"(O bozhe!), "О господи" (O gospodi), "Господи Иисусе" (Gospodi Iisuse!) and "Господи боже!" (Gospodi bozhe).
     
    Eirwyn said:
    The equivalents of the expression mentioned in the OP's post would be "О боже!"(O bozhe!), "О господи" (O gospodi), "Господи Иисусе" (Gospodi Iisuse!) and "Господи боже!" (Gospodi bozhe).
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    "Матерь Божья" (Mater' Bozh'ya) is also possible, even though not really likely.
    On the one hand, the cult of Mary is indeed not so strong in Orthodox Christianity (the Immaculate Conception is not recognized). On the other hand, while Catholicism concentrates on the suffering Christ, in Orthodoxy the image of Christ as a king (and Mary as a queen respectively) became much more popular, and that looks like the main reason for not mentioning Jesus or Mary at all without their titles (in fact, Mary is rarely mentioned by name, mostly by titles only: Mother of God, Queen of Heaven, All-pure Virgin, and so on).
     
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    Encolpius said:
    Hello, I wonder if all Slavic languages use "Jesus Maria" as expression of surprise, amazement, etc. Thanks.

    Czech: Ježíšmarjá!
    Polish: Jesus Maria!
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    Actually, in Polish it's "Jezus, Maria!" - please mind the spelling. Other exclamations, similar to the quoted in other languages, are also possible. "O, (mój) Boże", "O, Matko Boska", "O, Matko Przenajświętsza", "O, Matko", "O, Jezu", "O, Mater Dolorosa" (it's in Latn, but it'is also sometimes used in Polish) etc. Their popularity varies between regions and social groups - and I have a general impression that they are used less and less often, especially among the younger generations.
     
    In the north, yes, but only as part of dialects or as a heavily regionally marked usage. Jezušmarija. Don't think it's used outside of the north.
     
    Eirwyn said:
    I'm pretty sure it's a Catholic only thing. Orthodox Christians don't usually pay so much attention to Mary.
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    Not in Greece. Virgin Mary (Panagia) is often invoked to show surprise, sometimes in association with Christ. "Christos kai Panagia!"
     
    In my opinion that term was derived from "Isis Miriam", which in Hebrew would mean "Isis wished for child". In the first century BCE, the cult of Isis became a part of Roman religion. The worship of Isis was ended by the rise of Christianity in the fourth and fifth centuries CE. Her worship may have influenced Christian beliefs and practices such as the veneration of Mary. Just like Mary, she is pictured with a baby (Horus) in her arms. She was a virgin, Horus was a son of god (Osiris)...
     
    Whilst Isis may have been known (and worshipped by a minority) in Greco-Roman pre-Christian culture, she was never worshipped by Hebrew speakers that I’m aware of. Nor was Hebrew used in Greco-Roman culture. It is hard to believe that an expression relying on an Egyptian God and a Hebrew word could have found its way into certain Slavic languages as you suggest.
     
    Assumption based on Ancient Greek:
    Jesus - Ἰησοῦς (Iēsoûs) /i.ɛː.sôːs/ → /i.iˈsus/ →/i.iˈsus/
    Isis - Ἶσῐς (Îsis) /îː.sis/ → /ˈi.sis/ → /ˈi.sis/
    Mary - Μαριᾱ́μ (Mariā́m) borrowed from Aramaic מרים‎ (maryam) or Hebrew מִרְיָם ‎(miryām)
     
    So your argument is that if two words sound vaguely similar one must be derived from the other, even if they are in different languages and there is no particular evidence of the transmission?
    The English words marry and merry, for example, also sound similar. Are we to assume that this is because marriage is the traditional prequel to having a child and that having a child makes one happy?
     
    You got me wrong. My assumption is based not only on similarities between words, but also on myths, legends and historical data that confirm the direct connection between the Egyptians, Jews and Greeks.
     
    Jesus - Ἰησοῦς (Iēsoûs) /i.ɛː.sôːs/ → /i.iˈsus/ →/i.iˈsus/ Borrowed from Hebrew ישוע‎ from יְהוֹשֻׁעַ‎ (y'hoshúa, “Joshua”) from הוֹשֵׁעַ‎ (hōšḗaʿ, “Hosea”) with the "addition" of יהוה‎ (“Yahweh”), therefore meaning "Yahweh is salvation". הוֹשִׁיעַ‎ (hoshía', “to save”).
     
    IMHO it has nothing in common with the West Slavic, Slovene and Croatian interjection.
    It is simply an interjection, nothing else.

    BTW as it is not allowed to take the name of the Lord in vain, we often say:

    ježkovy oči! (instead of ježíšmarjá!) = hedgehog's eyes (ježek = hedgehog);

    It's a very common substitution.
     
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    I apologize if I accidentally offended anyone, I'm not religious so I don't know how much is allowed to talk about this topic and there is a lot that I could write.
     
    In my opinion a conjuction "and" should stand between two names which is missing in this case and leads me to the conclusion that it is a name and an adjective.
     
    No, nobody is offended, I have only mentioned the third commandment ("Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord in vain").
    It is the reason why the believers use substitutions like "ježkovy oči" (beginning with "jež-" like "ježíšmarjá").

    For example, if you see something surprising or amazing, you can say "ježkovy oči" in Czech. Nowadays it is probably commoner than the somewhat outdated "ježíšmarjá".
     
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    Vukabular said:
    In my opinion a conjuction "and" should stand between two names which is missing in this case and leads me to the conclusion that it is a name and an adjective.
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    It's an interjection, not a phrase. In Polish It's written with a coma, albeit it's pronounced as one string of vocals: Jezus, Maria. Back then also a Joseph could be added: Jezus, Maria, Józef.

    I think that your speculation goes too far based on a mere lack of a conjunction. Besides, it just does not make much sense. Even if some ancient roots could really lead to isis, for the speakers it would not mean anything, because their clear intention was to refer to Jesus Christ.
     
    Vukabular said:
    In my opinion a conjuction "and" should stand between two names which is missing in this case and leads me to the conclusion that it is a name and an adjective.
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    That is frankly ludicrous. Idiomatic expressions, especially interjections, often get deformed over time, and the absence of an unnecessary « and » allows us to conclude nothing whatsoever. Serious etymology, as others have already mentioned, relies on finding references and prior usage. For example for the moment you haven’t demonstrated that what you propose as a source expression was actually used in pre-Christian Greco-roman culture, whereas the relative wealth of written material from this time ought to permit it.
     
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