All Slavic: Negative imperative

ibogi

Member
Serbia - Serbian
In BCS, there are two ways of forming negative imperative:

Ne + imperative
Nemoj/nemojte + infinitive (da + present in Serbian)

For example:

Otvori vrata - Ne otvaraj vrata - Nemoj otvarati vrata / Nemoj da otvaraš vrata
Zatvori usta - Ne zatvaraj usta - Nemoj zatvarati usta / Nemoj da zatvaraš usta

I have two questions:
1) Is there a corresponding verb nemoj/nemojte in other Slavic languages? This verbs evades me since it has only present and only second person singular and plural.

2) In BCS negative imperative requires continuous aspect for most verbs, even if we wish to designate that is action is not done only once. For example, If one wishes not to open the window, saying "Ne otvori prozor" sounds completely wrong to me and "Nemoj da otvoris prozor" doesn't sound completely wrong, but I would prefer "Ne otvaraj prozor"
 
  • Panceltic

    Senior Member
    Slovenščina
    In Slovenian, the only correct option is "ne + imperative", usually with imperfective verbs if possible. "Ne odpiraj okna" - "Don't open the window", "Ne zapiraj vrat" - "Don't close the door" (and not **ne odpri, **ne zapri); "Ne bodi tečen" - "Don't be annoying".

    However, in spoken language, we usually say "ne + infinitive", usually without the final -i. "Ne odpirat okna", "Ne zapirat vrat", "Ne bit tečen".

    There is nothing like "nemoj(te)".
     

    ibogi

    Member
    Serbia - Serbian
    it is my guess that the form nemoj/nemojmo/nemojte as well as недей/недейте are common to Balkansprachbund. Greek has a similar form

    άνοιξει - μην ανοίγεις - the first verb means Open! the second Do not open!. The first verb is imperative simple mood, the second verb is min (which means don't) + second person singular present continuous mood.

    I am curious if this feature comes to other languages from Greek and if it's present in other languages (Albanian, Romanian)
     

    Awwal12

    Senior Member
    Russian
    1) Is there a corresponding verb nemoj/nemojte in other Slavic languages? This verbs evades me since it has only present and only second person singular and plural.

    2) In BCS negative imperative requires continuous aspect for most verbs, even if we wish to designate that is action is not done only once. For example, If one wishes not to open the window, saying "Ne otvori prozor" sounds completely wrong to me and "Nemoj da otvoris prozor" doesn't sound completely wrong, but I would prefer "Ne otvaraj prozor"
    1. No, only не + imperative in Russian.
    2. Most Russian negative imperatives require verbs of the imperfective aspect by default (не убивай, не делай, не клади etc.). Negative imperatives with perfective verbs mostly imply unvoluntary, accidental action which should be avoided: не убей (ненароком), не сделай (случайно) etc. There are exceptions of different nature, though. As for imperfective verbs of movement, the choice between undirected and continuous verbs (не иди/не ходи, не лети/не летай etc.) generally depends both on the verb and on the meaning; for walking, it seems that не иди (continuous) is almost never used, while for the rest it depends on the meaning of the phrase.
     

    bibax

    Senior Member
    Czech (Prague)
    Nemoj/nemojte reminds Latin nolī/nolīte + infinitive (like in noli tangere circulos meos = ne tangas ...).

    1) In Czech we sometimes use nechtěj/nechtějte + infinitive, but chtíti is a common verb meaning to want.

    nechtěj být ... (nebuď ...)
    nechtěj se ptát (neptej se);
    ... nechtěj se posmívati služebnici své (neposmívej se služebnici své);
    = ... noli mentiri ancillae tuae (LA, Nova Vulgata)
    = ... не обманывай рабы твоей (RU)

    2) In the negative imperative we use mostly the imperfective aspect:

    Otevři okna! (open the windows) - Neotvírej okna!
    Udělej to sám! (do it yourself) - Nedělej to sám!
    Zkus to! (try it) - Nezkoušej to!
    Zeptej se! (ask) - Neptej se!
    Odpověz! (answer) - Neodpovídej!

    Jdi do lesa! - Nechoď do lesa!

    But the construction with nechtít can use both aspects.

    Rozzlob mě [a uvidíš]! - Nezlob mě! - Nechtějrozzlobit!
    Make me angry! - Don't make me angry! - Don't want to make me angry!

    3) Simple imperative is also possible:

    Nemluvit! (mluviti = to speak)
    Neopisovat! (e.g. a teacher in classroom, opisovati od někoho = to be cribbing from sb)
     
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    LoraLanguage

    Senior Member
    Bulgarian - Bulgaria
    In Bulgarian we have two opportunities.
    For example:
    Недей да пиеш! or Не пий! - Don't drink!
    In the first case we use "недей да" + infinitive in second person, singular, present simple tense.
    In the second case we use the negative particle "не" + positive imperative in second person, singular, imperfect form.

    It's the same when we talk about second person, plural.
    For example:
    Недейте да пиете! or Не пийте! - Don't drink!
    In the first case we use "недейте да" + infinitive in second person, plural, present simple tense.
    In the second case we use the negative particle "не" + positive imperative in second person, plural, imperfect form.
     

    marco_2

    Senior Member
    Polish
    And what about the forms недей писа with a shortened infininitive - don't you use it in contemporary Bulgarian?
     
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    LoraLanguage

    Senior Member
    Bulgarian - Bulgaria
    And what about the forms недей писа with a shortened infininitive - don't you use it in contemporary Bulgarian?
    Actually we sometimes say it but this is NOT correct in contemporary Bulgarian and it sounds weird! We can use it only in colloquial language and never in an official text! The correct forms are: Недей да пишеш and Не пиши!
     

    jasio

    Senior Member
    1. No, only не + imperative in Russian.
    2. Most Russian negative imperatives require verbs of the imperfective aspect by default (не убивай, не делай, не клади etc.). Negative imperatives with perfective verbs mostly imply unvoluntary, accidental action which should be avoided: не убей (ненароком), не сделай (случайно) etc. There are exceptions of different nature, though. As for imperfective verbs of movement, the choice between undirected and continuous verbs (не иди/не ходи, не лети/не летай etc.) generally depends both on the verb and on the meaning; for walking, it seems that не иди (continuous) is almost never used, while for the rest it depends on the meaning of the phrase.
    In Polish it's very similar.
    1. "Nie" + imperative as the only permitted variant
    2. Typical use of imperfective verbs (nie zabijaj, nie rób, nie kładź, etc), and perfective verbs mainly to avoid accidental unvoluntary actions (nie upuść, nie zgub) - but also "nie zrób czegoś głupiego", as if doing something stupid was inherently accidental. ;-)
     

    toocool

    Member
    Croatian
    Otvori vrata - Ne otvaraj vrata - Nemoj otvarati vrata / Nemoj da otvaraš vrata
    Zatvori usta - Ne zatvaraj usta - Nemoj zatvarati usta / Nemoj da zatvaraš usta

    As a rule, in Croatian, you would just use the first two forms; "Ne otvaraj vrata - Nemoj otvarati vrata" whilst "Nemoj da otvaraš vrata" is used in Serbian and almost never in Croatian even though it is grammatically correct in both languages.
    Should I shout in the middle of Zagreb (Capital of Croatia) "NEMOJ DA ZATVARAŠ VRATA" I'd be immediately labeled as a Serb
    [...]
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    Hachi25

    Member
    Serbo-Croatian
    As ibogi already stated in the opening post, there is also another possibility here: Nemoj otvoriti vrata / Nemoj da otvoriš vrata. This structure, however, in my mind changes the meaning slightly; by saying Nemoj otvoriti vrata you are not just telling the other person not to open the door, you are actually (strictly) forbidding them to do that.

    Otvori vrata - Ne otvaraj vrata - Nemoj otvarati vrata / Nemoj da otvaraš vrata
    Should I shout in the middle of Zagreb (Capital of Croatia) "NEMOJ DA ZATVARAŠ VRATA" I'd be immediately labeled as a Serb which might attract some unwanted attention even in a broad light 20+ years after the war of Balkans.:(
    Although this is off topic, I must disagree. You might be labeled as a Serb if you pronounced the sentence like a Serb would, but if you are really from Zagreb, there is a bigger chance for you to pronounce the verb differently (like zatvȃraš), in which case you would just sound strange. Maybe even funny.
    [...]
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    a post
     
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    toocool

    Member
    Croatian
    Hi Hachi, sorry to reply with a delay but daily obligations are seriously reducing my free time, mostly spent on different linguistic forums or working on translations /French >> English, English >> French/ so back to business :)

    Your remark is entirely accurate: we agree that "Nemoj otvoriti vrata" is definitely a very straightforward interdiction to open the door in Croatian and "Nemoj da otvoriš vrata" which would typically be used in Serbia also (IMO) carries the same "weight" and orders a person not to open the door->what other choice is a left to a person after "Nemoj da otvoriš vrata" or "Nemoj otvoriti vrata".Both are strict and clear instructions to a person not to open the #$%#& door ;)...Only the sentence "Ne otvaraj vrata" is stricter than the forms mentioned above (IMHO)

    [...]
    Mod note : chat removed - please use PM for friendly off topic discussions
     
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    nimak

    Senior Member
    Macedonian
    In Macedonian it is:
    • Не (ne) + imperative!
    • Немој (nemoj) + да (da) + present!; The plural form немојте (nemojte) is also used.
    Не оди! (Né odi!)
    Немој да одиш! (Némoj da ódiš!)

    Не отворај врата! (Ne ótvoraj vráta!)
    Немој да отвораш врата! (Némoj da ótvoraš vráta!)

    Не отворај ја вратата! (Ne otvóraj ja vrátata!) or Не ја отворај вратата! (Ne ja ótvoraj vrátata!)
    Немој да ја отвораш вратата! (Némoj da ja ótvoraš vrátata!)

    In some Macedonian dialects there are used ним (nim) and нуму (numu) plus shortened infinitive.

    Gevgelija dialect: Ним се коси! (Ním se kósi!) - "Don't get angry!"
    Standard Macedonian:
    Немој да се лутиш! (Némoj da se lútiš!); Не лути се! (Ne lúti se!)

    Tikveš dialect: Нуму лафи! (Númu láfi!) - "Don't speak!"
    Standard Macedonian:
    Немој да зборуваш! (Némoj da zbóruvaš!); Не зборувај! (Ne zbóruvaj!)
     
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    nimak

    Senior Member
    Macedonian
    it is my guess that the form nemoj/nemojmo/nemojte as well as недей/недейте are common to Balkansprachbund. Greek has a similar form

    άνοιξει - μην ανοίγεις - the first verb means Open! the second Do not open!. The first verb is imperative simple mood, the second verb is min (which means don't) + second person singular present continuous mood.

    I am curious if this feature comes to other languages from Greek and if it's present in other languages (Albanian, Romanian)
    It is present in Albanian too, they use the particle mos. Shko! -"Go!"; Mos shko! - "Don't go!"
     

    Christo Tamarin

    Senior Member
    Bulgarian
    Bulgarian.
    Do not write!
    • Не пишѝ! Не пишѣ̀те! (Не пишѐте!)
    • Недѣ̀й пѝса! Недѣ̀йте пѝса! (Нед̀ей пѝса! Нед̀ѐйте пѝса!)
    • Недѣ̀й да пѝшеш! Недѣ̀йте да пѝшете! (Нед̀ей да пѝшеш! Нед̀ѐйте да пѝшете!)
    All the versions above are absolutely correct.

    Residual infinitive is a correct form in Standard Bulgarian, although Western Bulgarians do not use it.
    Example: Женитѣ можеш ли ги разбра̀!
     
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