Although/Even if + present subjunctive

Doc J

Senior Member
U. S. English
Hello everyone,
I see that the present subjunctive in some of the other threads is translated by "although." But doesn't "even if" in this case work better?



Present indicative habitual:
Although Patty always opens all the windows in the office when it is raining and snowing, the secretaries do not feel very cold.
Aunque Patty siempre abre todas las ventanas de la oficina cuando está lloviendo y nevando, las secretarias no se sienten muy frías.

Present subjunctive:
Even if Patty opens all the windows in the office when it is raining and snowing, the secretaries do not feel very cold.
Aunque/incluso si Patty abra todas las ventanas de la oficina cuando esté lloviendo y nevando, las secretarias no se sentirán muy frías.
 
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  • blasita

    Senior Member
    Spain. Left six years ago
    Hello.

    To me everything's all right except for 'incluso si Patty abra' (=abre - indicative). So, 'aunque Patty abre' (a fact; she does it) and 'aunque Patty abra' (a possibility/a future). And I'd say: 'las secretarias no tienen/tendrán tanto frío'. I'm not sure if they're the best literal translations though (but 'aunque' sounds fine to me there).

    Better explanations and more opinions will come. Saludos.
     

    Forero

    Senior Member
    I would say the sentence with subjunctive is more like "Though Patty may open all the windows ...."

    We need to find out from the Spanish experts whether "incluso si abre" and "aunque abra" have the same meaning.
     

    Doc J

    Senior Member
    U. S. English
    Good point about the "may," Forero. This helps explain the missing link. I do not want to split hairs, but these two are roughly equivalent, depending on the circumstance.

    Though someone may do/Even if some would do, were
     

    blasita

    Senior Member
    Spain. Left six years ago
    We need to find out from the Spanish experts whether "incluso si abre" and "aunque abra" have the same meaning.
    My opinion (even though I don't consider myself an expert in this matter): same meaning, but 'incluso si' is, let's say, more emphatic (like 'even if' vs 'although').
     

    Doc J

    Senior Member
    U. S. English
    Yes, Blasita. you are exactly correct, but the problem is that in some regions "incluso si" is not used. My friends here in Mexico do not use it, but I did hear it often when I lived in Colombia. Anyway, thanks.
     

    blasita

    Senior Member
    Spain. Left six years ago
    Yes, Blasita. you are exactly correct, but the problem is that in some regions "incluso si" is not used. My friends here in Mexico do not use it, but I did hear it often when I lived in Colombia. Anyway, thanks.
    Oh, this is news for me. I know that Mexicans -at least some friends of mine- use 'incluso si' (maybe you mean that they use it less??). The fact is that I use 'aunque' much more often than 'incluso si' (reason above). And anyway, it is a perfectly correct expression.:)
     
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