"América" es más que los EE.UU.

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Augusto-Cesar

Senior Member
USA: Spanish (Standard)
Mis queridos súbditos: :mad:

Uno de mis esclavos anglosajones insiste que se traduzca la frase “America’s Best Offer” por “La mejor oferta de América”. Mi veredicto es este, “América” no solamente es los EE.UU. sino que también empieza desde Alaska hasta la Patagonia. Por lo tanto, “La mejor oferta del país” es lo correcto. ¿Desde cuándo “América” significa “Estados Unidos” en español?

Lo peor del caso es que algunos de mis súbditos de Gallia, Hispania e Italia y otros, dicen ''America'' cuando hablan de los EE.UU. ¡Qué horror!

Insisto en que no se diga ni traduzca “America” para decir los EE.UU. ya que existen tantos otros países que forman parte de “América”. ¿Alguien está de acuerdo?

Caesar vos saluta!

Augustus-CÉSAR IMPERATOR :mad:
 
  • gdiaz

    Senior Member
    Chile - Español
    Siempre me ha parecido que los gringos y los europeos identifican a nuestro continente con el país del Tío Sam porque éste último nos considera su patio trasero. La unica diferencia que hacen es entre America (sin tilde) y Latin America, para referirse con esta última expresion a todas las naciones independientes ubicadas al sur de los Estados Juntos. Ya lo dijeron los integrantes del grupo Los Prisioneros en mi país, Chile: Latinoamérica es un pueblo al sur de los EE.UU.
    Es una falta de respeto desde mi punto de vista.
     

    Augusto-Cesar

    Senior Member
    USA: Spanish (Standard)
    Ave!

    Aparentemente esa canción es muy conocida. Se la acabo de mencionar a un cumpanis y me dijo que es vieja la canción.

    Estoy completamente de acuerdo con los ¨Prisioneros¨
    Los anglosajones tratan a mis súbditos latinos como un si fuesen un pueblucho.

    Salve!

    Augusto-César Imperator
     

    aab

    Senior Member
    Argentina - Español
    No me parece bien la discusion.... si bien coincido con ustedes, no me parece el lugar adecuado ya que aqui hay varios de esos "gringos" que nos enseñan y nos ayudan a estudiar y a aprender ingles... de otro modo nos la pasariamos escribiendo en castellano... sorry!

    Saludos!
     

    Augusto-Cesar

    Senior Member
    USA: Spanish (Standard)
    Aab:

    Mi hilo empezó con una frase que tenía que traducir.
    Si bien se ha desatado un torrente y ha causado una polémica, bueno, no es mea culpa. El hecho que nos ayuden con la gramática inglesa no tiene nada que ver con la historia y la verdad de las cosas. Por ende, ''América'' la he traducido por ''país'' y no ''Estados Unidos''.

    Veritas vos liberabit!
     

    Isolde

    Senior Member
    Peru Spanish
    Augusto-Cesar said:
    Aab:

    Mi hilo empezó con una frase que tenía que traducir.
    Si bien se ha desatado un torrente y ha causado una polémica, bueno, no es mea culpa. El hecho que nos ayuden con la gramática inglesa no tiene nada que ver con la historia y la verdad de las cosas. Por ende, ''América'' la he traducido por ''país'' y no ''Estados Unidos''.

    Veritas vos liberabit!
    Ab imo pectore te digo que tienes toda la razón. Este tema se puede discutir ab infinitum. Todos sabemos que para los estadounidenses Aut Caesar aut nihil...es decir EU primero, EU segundo y EU tercero...lo que viene como cola importa mucho o poco, a menos que puedan sacar algún provecho o una gran cantidad de dólares. Consensus omnium en este caso. Y por ende no son populares en la mayor parte del globo terráqueo...ex lungue leonem! Pero que hablo! Su gobierno ahora no es popular ni con ellos mismos, exempli gratia: Nueva Orleans. Con esta tragedia se dieron a conocer íntegramente... Flagrante delicto.

    Sólo recuerda que hasta el gran Imperio Romano cayó...y que "History repeats itself."

    Bonum vinum laetificat cor hominis. Por lo tanto me serviré una copa de buen Shiraz!

    Saludos!
     

    aab

    Senior Member
    Argentina - Español
    Los politicos hacen negociados en TODO el globo terraqueo sin importar al pais al que pertenezcan. La gente comun es la que hace grande a un pais... si no hay gente que estudie, que trabaje y que quiera vivir en paz entonces no hay pais.
    Es por eso que NO CREO que sea este el lugar correcto para discutirlo. Aqui hay mucha gente "comun" que esta dispuesta a ayudarnos y nosostros a ellos. El que su gobierno responda de una manera o de otra (a favor o encontra) de ellos no nos da derecho a juzgarlos en ningun modo.
    Pido por favor que omitan comentarios sobre los desastres ocurridos hace poco porque se vio afectada gente de no solo EEUU sino tambien extranjeros que eligieron vivir en ese pais, la mayoria gente de escasos recursos. La humanidad es lo que nos distingue de los salvajes. Respeten a nuestros pares de EEUU. (con los politicos hagan lo que quieran, sean de donde sean)

    Saludos!
     

    El Estudiante

    Senior Member
    EEUU, english
    Isolde said:
    Ab imo pectore te digo que tienes toda la razón. Este tema se puede discutir ab infinitum. Todos sabemos que para los estadounidenses Aut Caesar aut nihil...es decir EU primero, EU segundo y EU tercero...lo que viene como cola importa mucho o poco, a menos que puedan sacar algún provecho o una gran cantidad de dólares. Consensus omnium en este caso. Y por ende no son populares en la mayor parte del globo terráqueo...ex lungue leonem! Pero que hablo! Su gobierno ahora no es popular ni con ellos mismos, exempli gratia: Nueva Orleans. Con esta tragedia se dieron a conocer íntegramente... Flagrante delicto.

    Sólo recuerda que hasta el gran Imperio Romano cayó...y que "History repeats itself."

    Bonum vinum laetificat cor hominis. Por lo tanto me serviré una copa de buen Shiraz!

    Saludos!
    Isolde,

    Cuando dice :

    "todos sabemos que para los estadounidenses Aut Caesar aut nihil...es decir EU primero, EU segundo y EU tercero...lo que viene como cola importa mucho o poco, a menos que puedan sacar algún provecho o una gran cantidad de dólares."

    Para quíen está hablando? Yo no sé eso. Soy estadounidense, y no tengo esos sentimientos. De dónde saca Ud. el derecho de hablar de o para la gente de un país entero?

    Estoy de acuerdo con aab. Este hilo no pertenece en este foro, sino en "Cultural issuues".
     

    Augusto-Cesar

    Senior Member
    USA: Spanish (Standard)
    MrFred:

    Creo que debes editar tu escrito que al final dice ''los gringos son bárbaros''. Yo como romano lo interpreto por ''los anglosajones son bárbaros'', pero no de los bárbaros buenos, sino aquéllos que atacan mi imperium.

    Salve dominus Fredus!

    Agusto-César Imperator
     

    aab

    Senior Member
    Argentina - Español
    Hola,
    Volvemos a lo mismo, no me parece el lugar adecuado para opinar sobre esto. Yo no opino de politica ni aqui ni con personas que no conozco. Yo aqui vine a estudiar ingles.

    Saludos!
     

    MrFred

    Senior Member
    Argentina Español
    I came here to learn, too, but I found it very interesting to talk about it..nothing else...sorry if someone got offended...but in my humble opinion I'm not lying... it's the plain truth....

    SAD BUT TRUE.

    Fede.
     

    Augusto-Cesar

    Senior Member
    USA: Spanish (Standard)
    Salve!

    ¡No creo que nadie se ofendió dominus Fredus!
    Por lo menos yo estoy de acuerdo contigo, pero no creo que me entendiste. Es que en la historia de Roma, se le llamaba bárbaros a quienes no vivían dentro de las fronteras de Roma... simplemente era un juego de palabras... nosotros en español decimos ¡qué bárbaro! para decir que algo está bueno. Eso se sobreentiende.

    Tu emperador,

    Augusto-César Imperator
     

    Isolde

    Senior Member
    Peru Spanish
    El Estudiante said:
    Isolde,

    Cuando dice :

    "todos sabemos que para los estadounidenses Aut Caesar aut nihil...es decir EU primero, EU segundo y EU tercero...lo que viene como cola importa mucho o poco, a menos que puedan sacar algún provecho o una gran cantidad de dólares."

    Para quíen está hablando? Yo no sé eso. Soy estadounidense, y no tengo esos sentimientos. De dónde saca Ud. el derecho de hablar de o para la gente de un país entero?

    Estoy de acuerdo con aab. Este hilo no pertenece en este foro, sino en "Cultural issuues".


    Perhaps I should have said "the US government...." However, as far as the right to talk about a whole country....unfortunately, sometimes it is impossible not to generalize. For decades the US has been very unpopular in many countries that they have exploited and invaded. Now and with the help of Bush, you have become perhaps the most unpopular country in the world. Who is to blame? The government obviously....but who elects the leader of a government? The people. Perhaps we could condone his election once........but twice???

    I have known very nice US people, I have worked with them and for them. But no matter how nice you are, no matter how helpful you are, deep down the majority of you really, really believe that there is nothing like the USA and that anybody who dares go against any of the beliefs of your country is totally wrong. It's like there is only two colours in life: one is the US and the other the rest of the world.

    Whilst you are very knowledgeable about your country, you hardly know anything about the rest of the world. I base this statement on my experience, as I say, of working with and for US people. These were supposedly educated people with different backgrounds...and I am sick and tired of being asked if Peru is in Europe....or if we still ride llamas in the city...or if Lima is in France - and these are questions that I have actually been asked! You don't even try to give credit to other cultures and keep comparing everything with the US. Your spirit of competitiveness borders on aggression, you only have to see for ex. the Olympic Games, if somebody else wins, you start making excuses, blaming this or the other...like it is impossible for someone else to win!

    Individually you are nice and friendly and good -hearted...it is incredible that as a nation you transform yourselves in this arrogant and selfish monster, who on top of that, is blindfolded.
     

    mylam

    Senior Member
    United States English
    Alright, I think we all understand how you feel. But like aab keeps saying, this is not the place. I'm sure we could all find ways to insult each others' countries and/or countrymen, but I don't find that kind of behavior to be in the general spirit of the sharing here in the forums.

    Edit: To clarify, this thread was in a vocabulary forum when I wrote this. The Cultural Issues forum is a much more appropriate place, as long as the discussion stays civil. :)
     

    Augusto-Cesar

    Senior Member
    USA: Spanish (Standard)
    Mis súbditos:

    Si os fijáis en lo que yo escribí al principio, no tiene nadie que ver con insultar a ningún país ni persona. Más bien fue una aclaración que hizo uno de mis súbditos en una traducción y con la cual yo estoy sumamente in contra porque de hecho, si se utilizace sólo ''América'' para decir ''EE.UU.'' entonces esto ofendería aún a más personas. Una aclaración hecha por mí, Augusto-César Imperator.

    Ego sum qui venit in nomine meum.
    Yo soy el que viene en mi nombre.

    El próximo que escriba un insulto será condenado a los leones en la arena.

    Ese es mi edicto final.
    Yo el benévolo, el sabio, el justo, el fiel.
    Augusto-César Imperator
     

    BasedowLives

    Senior Member
    uSa
    whenever i am overseas and i tell them i am from the USA, they say, "ooooh americano!". i have never heard a spanish person call me estadounidense. always americano.
     

    Pitagoras el Capitan

    Member
    Argentina (spanish)
    El mejor post en bastante tiempo!! :thumbsup:
    Para los que tengan ganas les recomiendo que escuchen la cancion de los canadienses Arrogant Worms : I am not American y después me cuentan!
    (de paso les hago propaganda... aguanten los Worms!!) jeje
     

    Augusto-Cesar

    Senior Member
    USA: Spanish (Standard)
    Pitagoras Capitanus Bonarensis:

    Nunca pensé que mi mensaje fuese causa de tanta conmoción y controversia.
    Pero como digo siempre en latín, veritas vos liberabit.

    Y creo que los Arrogant Worms no son mas que unos simples gusanos arrogantes. :p

    Mi pregunta original, era ¿desde cuándo se traduce ''América'' por ''Estados Unidos''? Y en referencia al porqué mucha gente dice ''americano'' para decir estadounidense, es simplemente porque algunos non sapient que ''americano'' es sino un anglicismo para denotar a un ciudanano de los EE.UU. Un anglicismo como tantos otros indebidos.

    Vuestro más sabio y justo emperador ha dicho esto.

    Salve!
    Augusto-César Imperator ;)
     

    Isolde

    Senior Member
    Peru Spanish
    mylam said:
    Alright, I think we all understand how you feel. But like aab keeps saying, this is not the place. I'm sure we could all find ways to insult each others' countries and/or countrymen, but I don't find that kind of behavior to be in the general spirit of the sharing here in the forums.
    Allow me to disagree. This is the perfect place to discuss about various subjects. Here we are, many people in different countries, sharing ideas, giving opinions and why not - arguing about certain things. There are no inhibitions as we do not know each other and can express what we think without qualms.

    Language is culture and through language you learn about the people, their countries, their customs and their ideas.

    Nobody is insulting anybody. If that happens, there are mediators to draw the line and I agree with that. However, an argument can be healthy and sometimes it serves to educate and to open the minds of people who otherwise wouldn't know any better.

    If this serves for only one person to think a bit more about certain issues in a positive way, then the Forum has achieved something important. If somehow one of you starts thinking in the way of: "Well, perhaps the little Mexican could have won that Olympic gold medal if he/she had also a bicycle designed by NASA..." or "I wonder if any third world country had the resources we had and could train kids since they are 3 years old - could we still be No. 1 in sports?" This is just an example of course.

    I think the US has forgotten to be humble. There is no humility there anymore. It has disappeared amongst your skyscrapers and oil wells (what you have left there...) and the dollar sign. Why?

    Politicians of course are culprits number one. Then, dare I say: teachers?

    Not long ago I was working with a group from the US. There was this little girl, not more than 5 years old. She was bored, so someone gave her a piece of paper and a pencil to draw. Do you know what she draw? Not a house with flowers and birds and the sun, like I would say the majority of children would. She draw the US flag... Personally, I think that is scary and sad.

    Anyway, this is all for now. Never hesitate to give your opinion...it is called "freedom of speech".
     

    toboto

    Senior Member
    Spain - Spanish
    Coming back to translation issues:

    En Estados Unidos es frecuente utilizar America para referirse a dicho país y americans para denominar a sus ciudadanos. Supongo que es difícil cambiar ese uso tan arraidado allí (en inglés). Pero lo que sí que podemos hacer cuando encontremos un texto de estas características es traducirlo bien, como nuestro excelso emperador sugiere:

    En este contexto, al traducir al español, America será Estados Unidos y americans, estadounidenses.
     

    BasedowLives

    Senior Member
    uSa
    Isolde said:
    Allow me to disagree. This is the perfect place to discuss about various subjects. Here we are, many people in different countries, sharing ideas, giving opinions and why not - arguing about certain things. There are no inhibitions as we do not know each other and can express what we think without qualms.

    Language is culture and through language you learn about the people, their countries, their customs and their ideas.

    Nobody is insulting anybody. If that happens, there are mediators to draw the line and I agree with that. However, an argument can be healthy and sometimes it serves to educate and to open the minds of people who otherwise wouldn't know any better.

    If this serves for only one person to think a bit more about certain issues in a positive way, then the Forum has achieved something important. If somehow one of you starts thinking in the way of: "Well, perhaps the little Mexican could have won that Olympic gold medal if he/she had also a bicycle designed by NASA..." or "I wonder if any third world country had the resources we had and could train kids since they are 3 years old - could we still be No. 1 in sports?" This is just an example of course.

    I think the US has forgotten to be humble. There is no humility there anymore. It has disappeared amongst your skyscrapers and oil wells (what you have left there...) and the dollar sign. Why?

    Politicians of course are culprits number one. Then, dare I say: teachers?

    Not long ago I was working with a group from the US. There was this little girl, not more than 5 years old. She was bored, so someone gave her a piece of paper and a pencil to draw. Do you know what she draw? Not a house with flowers and birds and the sun, like I would say the majority of children would. She draw the US flag... Personally, I think that is scary and sad.

    Anyway, this is all for now. Never hesitate to give your opinion...it is called "freedom of speech".
    How is drawing the flag sad? It's just a design. If you got scared by children drawing flags, that's sad. And about the olympics thing, there are regulations to insure that nobody can use some kind of juiced up super-equipment. If that were allowed, do you think Kenya would win gold medals? hell no.

    I think this is all an issue of culture. Other countries put being humble as a top priority for their citizens. We are a competitive country, and it has always been like that. Thus competitive minds are bred and pride is a result. It's a cross cultural difference, and would be ethnocentrist to retain your view as the right one.

    i am far from a "patriot", but i disagree with some of these things.
     

    chula

    Member
    Guatemala
    Considero que es una lástima que la palabra "América" se utilice en inglés para referirse a los Estados Unidos, pero qué se puede hacer, es la historia la que determina el destino de muchos términos. Como alguien dijo correctamente en muchos países europeos se utiliza la misma palabra para referirse a Estados Unidos. Nosotros, o mejor dicho algunos, o espero que varios de los habitantes del continente americano, nos sentimos agredidos, ofendidos o molestos por esto, sentimiento que igualmente es evocado por nuestra historia. Puedo entender por qué las personas ajenas a nuestro continente utilizan el término, que bajo nuestro punto de vista es errado, pero lo que no puedo entender y muchas veces me molesta es cuando habitantes de nuestro continente de habla hispana, utilicen el término America para referirse a EEUU. Esto para mí es lo más importante de corregir. El resto vendrá según se desarrolle la concienca colectiva de los habitantes de América y seamos nosotros los que no demos más uso a este término. Lamentablemente hay suficientes personas en Latinoamércia que lo utilizan de forma errada
     

    ITA

    Senior Member
    argentina español
    Estoy leyendo atenta cada uno de los mensajes escritos y me surge ésta pregunta:ustedes se dieron cuenta de lo que es realmente Bush a partir de el tema Irak?
    Dónde estuvieron viviendo en un frasco?
    Igual estoy muy de acuerdo con la mayoria
    Desde Buenos Aires ITA.
     

    cuchuflete

    Senior Member
    EEUU-inglés
    luar said:
    Hace meses hubo una discusión similar. Aquí está el enlace: http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=21002

    Salve César!
    Thanks Luar,

    This topic has been raised and discussed many times in these forums. It will, without doubt, be raised and discussed many times more. The pretext will normally be linguistic. The sub-text will generally be political. Even emperors are human, and will often neglect to search the forum for previous threads on the topic, so we will continue to see the same ideas and feelings expressed over and over again.

    There is no harm in that. If one gets bored reading the same thing again and again, one is welcome to read and write in other threads.

    Isolde raised an excellent question: Who elected Bush? 42.45% of the US population voted for a presidential candidate in 2004. Of those people, about 50.75% voted for Bush. Do the arithmetic. Between one fifth and one fourth of the population elected him. Sad that so few voters have caused such a result, in my personal view.

    If a president or head of government reflects what a country is all about, then don't forget to discuss Fujimori, Perón and on and on. You know the names, and what they did, and who chose them.

    If you want to be honest about the linguistic topic, just remember who put the word America on the continents. It was done by Europeans hundreds of years before the USA came into existence as a political entity. At the time it was adopted as part of the name of a country, it was objective, descriptive, and accurate.

    It still is. The country is a federation of American states. Note: the country name is not "The one and only group of united states in the Americas" nor is it "the united states of all the americas".

    The official names of both México and of Brasil are similar. Estados Unidos Mexicanos and República Federativa do Brasil. These names are descriptive and accurate. Brasil was named after a tree, the USA name comes from an Italian explorer.

    Sorry for interrupting the political discussion with these inconvenient facts.
     

    Kräuter_Fee

    Senior Member
    Portuguese&Spanish (native)/ (English&German - foreign)
    Totalmente de acuerdo! En español por América se entiende América del Norte, América Central y América del Sur.

    EEUU es un país más, aunque en inglés se sobreentiende que cuando se habla de "America" se refiere a EEUU en español NO!!!

    Por cierto, estoy un poco indignada porque según la RAE una de las definiciones de americano es:

    4. adj. estadounidense. Apl. a pers., u. t. c. s.

    Me parece muy mal, encima teniendo en cuenta que el castellano es el idioma de gran parte de ese continente!
     

    sean

    Senior Member
    USA English
    Hola foreros,

    Ya hemos visto este hilo, pero el tema no deja de ser interesante. Una preguntita... si no fueramos "Americans," ¿cómo nos llamaríamos? Lo siento, "United Statesians" me suena fatal.

    No es que quieramos decir que somos los únicos y verdaderos americanos... hay mucha polémica sobre cómo se refiere a diferentes culturas, razas, y nacionalidades, sobretodo al intentar traducir los nombres a otro idioma.

    El nombre de mi país es "United States of America." Y el nombre oficial de México es "Estados Unidos Mexicanos." (Si no es correcto que me corrijaís por favor, y os pido disculpas) :eek: . ¿Veráis la confusión? Tenemos vecinos (muy amables) con el mismo "nombre" pero con "apellido" distinto... Y todo el mundo los conoce como mexicanos. Pues ¿por qué no nos consideramos "americanos"? Y porque no decimos "estadounidenses" a los mexicanos si son de los Estados Unidos Mexicanos? Estados Unidos... bueno, Estados Unidos de qué? ¿de dónde?

    Separately, are we not allowed to build skyscrapers or be good at sports? I think just about every country has tall buildings and athletes. And I think it's OK for us to be upset and surprised when our basketball team loses. I mean, we're supposed to have such a great team. It's the same as if we were to beat another country in fútbol. Or if the US team had beaten Real Madrid last month, but we didn't, we got punished (I was wearing my Raul jersey for that game :eek: ).

    I am sorry if I am being estadouni-dense (I stole that from someone else, haha). I think this is a very worthwhile discussion, but really what do you think citizens of the United States of America should be called in English? I would really like to hear some suggestions.

    Saludos

    sean

    EDIT: sorry, cuchu. didn't see the tail end of your previous post! :END EDIT
     

    Kräuter_Fee

    Senior Member
    Portuguese&Spanish (native)/ (English&German - foreign)
    sean said:
    Hola foreros,

    Ya hemos visto este hilo, pero el tema no deja de ser interesante. Una preguntita... si no fueramos "Americans," ¿cómo nos llamaríamos? Lo siento, "United Statesians" me suena fatal.
    Por qué??? Si en español estadounidense no suena mal, no sé por qué va a soner Unitedstatesian o Unidedstater mal... es cuestión de acostumbrarse. Ninguna palabra suena bien la primera vez que se dice.

    El nombre de mi país es "United States of America." Y el nombre oficial de México es "Estados Unidos Mexicanos." (Si no es correcto que me corrijaís por favor, y os pido disculpas) :eek: . ¿Veráis la confusión? Tenemos vecinos (muy amables) con el mismo "nombre" pero con "apellido" distinto... Y todo el mundo les conoce como mexicanos. Pues ¿por qué no nos consideramos "americanos"? Y porque no decimos "estadounidenses" a los mexicanos si son de los Estados Unidos Mexicanos? Estados Unidos... bueno, Estados Unidos de qué? ¿de dónde?
    Eso me dijo mi profesor americano un día que le protesté por decir americano en vez de estadounidense :D... bueno, Estados Unidos de América no es lo mismo que América, América es un continente muy grande y Estados Unidos de América son unos estados que están en América. Si no inventasteis un nombre para el país... entonces supongo que tenéis que conformaros con Estados Unidos... no sé.
     

    sean

    Senior Member
    USA English
    Kräuter_Fee said:
    Por qué??? Si en español estadounidense no suena mal, no sé por qué va a soner Unitedstatesian o Unidedstater mal... es cuestión de acostumbrarse. Ninguna palabra suena bien la primera vez que se dice.



    Estadounidense es mucha palabra. 7 sílabas :warning: . Unitedstatesian y Unitedstater suenan peor que peor. No sólo es la cacafonía de esas palabras en inglés, sino también la imposibilidad política y la falta de motivo para cambiarlo. Nadie querrá acostumbrarse en USA. Y a mí me sonó muy bien la primera vez que la oí la palabra azafata pero no quiero que me llameís azafata. ;)


    Eso me dijo mi profesor americano un día que le protesté por decir americano en vez de estadounidense :D... bueno, Estados Unidos de América no es lo mismo que América, América es un continente muy grande y Estados Unidos de América son unos estados que están en América. Si no inventasteis un nombre para el país... entonces supongo que tenéis que conformaros con Estados Unidos... no sé.
    No se equivocó. Somos americanos. Igual que los peruanos, colombianos, panameños ;)




    saludos cordiales

    sean
     

    El Estudiante

    Senior Member
    EEUU, english
    This thread has been extremely enlightening for me. Until today, I had no idea just how much anti-American hatred has been lurking here in the forum, hidden just below the surface. It is, for me, a very disheartening and disturbing revelation, to say the least.

    Isolde, I think that ignorant, culturally chauvinistic people exist in all cultures. But that fact should not be used as an excuse to indict and condemn everyone from that culture. Comments such as yours do nothing to foster greater cross cultural awareness and understanding. They serve only to alienate people of good will, who are neither ignorant of, nor hostile towards their fellow humans. At least, that is the effect that they have had on me.
     

    modgirl

    Senior Member
    USA English, French, Russian
    mylam said:
    I'm sure we could all find ways to insult each others' countries and/or countrymen
    Quite frankly, there are assholes in every country. Only small-minded people would judge an entire nation on the actions or words of a few.

    As to the original post, I've found that it isn't United States citizens who refer to the country as "America." It's other countries! As a result, I will admit that when I'm in Europe, I tend to adopt the language practices of those around me; thus, I will say that I'm from "America" simply because that's the local vernacular. However, people that I know in the US -- who have never traveled beyond the borders -- do not refer to themselves as "from America."

    Someone said, "She draw the US flag... Personally, I think that is scary and sad."

    Would you find it equally as sad if the girl were Mexican and drew the Mexican flag?

    Here's the problem that I see with criticizing the US. It isn't that the US can't or shouldn't be criticized. It's that the criticizing becomes one-way. In other words, what is acceptable in one country is not acceptable with regards to the US. It's okay to criticize the US but not any other country or not to the degree that ti's done to the US. There are many, many issues with which I can find fault in the States! And I can also do the same thing for other countries.

    For those who have nothing positive to say about the US, kindly remember that the favor will probably be returned to you one day.
     

    srsh

    Senior Member
    Mexico, Español
    modgirl said:
    As to the original post, I've found that it isn't United States citizens who refer to the country as "America." It's other countries! As a result, I will admit that when I'm in Europe, I tend to adopt the language practices of those around me; thus, I will say that I'm from "America" simply because that's the local vernacular. However, people that I know in the US -- who have never traveled beyond the borders -- do not refer to themselves as "from America."

    Well, its United States citizens who say "God bless America" and I dont think they are talking about the continent.

    And I think we are not saying we hate USA, its just that we are making it clear that America is the whole continent, its nothing against USA citizens, I know you are good people.
     

    sean

    Senior Member
    USA English
    cuchuflete said:
    Minor correction. Unless you are Peruvian, in which case, Major correction. :)
    HUGE MISTAKE. Disculpas. :eek: :( Thanks cuchuflete, I've changed it. Qué vergüenza. Sorry.
     

    modgirl

    Senior Member
    USA English, French, Russian
    srsh said:
    Well, its United States citizens who say "God bless America" and I dont think they are talking about the continent.
    True, but it's only a song. Quite frankly, I don't even know all the words to it.

    Perhaps I'm wrong, but I honestly believe that the term "America" being applied solely to the United States is used overwhelmingly by non-Americans.

    Interestingly enough, I've had this discussion with many non-Americans, because Canadians and Mexicans and Central Americans are "Americans" too! But the answer is that's just how they speak.

    When was the last time you heard a person from Canada refer to himself as from "America"?
     

    srsh

    Senior Member
    Mexico, Español
    El Estudiante said:
    This thread has been extremely enlightening for me. Until today, I had no idea just how much anti-American hatred has been lurking here in the forum, hidden just below the surface. It is, for me, a very disheartening and disturbing revelation, to say the least.

    Isolde, I think that ignorant, culturally chauvinistic people exist in all cultures. But that fact should not be used as an excuse to indict and condemn everyone from that culture. Comments such as yours do nothing to foster greater cross cultural awareness and understanding. They serve only to alienate people of good will, who are neither ignorant of, nor hostile towards their fellow humans. At least, that is the effect that they have had on me.

    I cant see the condemning part in this topic, I cant understand why its so offensive for USA citizens to say that America is the whole continent, I cant see the anti-American hatred in that.
     

    sean

    Senior Member
    USA English
    modgirl said:
    True, but it's only a song. Quite frankly, I don't even know all the words to it.

    Perhaps I'm wrong, but I honestly believe that the term "America" being applied solely to the United States is used overwhelmingly by non-Americans.

    Interestingly enough, I've had this discussion with many non-Americans, because Canadians and Mexicans and Central Americans are "Americans" too! But the answer is that's just how they speak.

    When was the last time you heard a person from Canada refer to himself as from "America"?

    To the oceans... white with foam!!!

    I love that song, maybe more than any other America song, even though that rhyme is kind of a stretch.

    best,

    sean
     

    Phryne

    Senior Member
    Argieland--Esp/Eng
    modgirl said:
    When was the last time you heard a person from Canada refer to himself as from "America"?
    In Spanish, "America" is the continent (which we consider to be just ONE) and "americanos" are all of us. Yo soy americana!

    Side note: President Monroe had an interesting saying: "America for the Americans", referring to the whole continent (s) and all the people in the Americas, even though the doctrine never worked beyong Río Grande.

    saludos
     

    Augusto-Cesar

    Senior Member
    USA: Spanish (Standard)
    Salve!

    De nuevo reitero que mi pregunta no empezó como una crítica de los Estados Unidos, más bien, fue del uso del gentilicio ''americano'' o ''América'' para decir de o los Estados Unidos. Y sí, como dijo uno de vosotros acá vuestro humilde emperador ha dicho y sigue insistiendo que no se traducirá ni se dirá ''americano'' por ''estadounidense''. Acordaos que un conejo y una liebre aunque se parescan no son la misma cosa.

    Si los estadounidenses aquí presentes se sienten molestos o dicen que no sabían que existía tanta animosidad contra su país, sólo basta ver la televisión y escuchar las noticias, ver las imágenes de personas alrededor del mundo que protestan en contra de la agresión de los EE.UU. contra otros países, ejemplo, Panamá 1991, Iraq 1992-2005, Somalia 1994, Nicaragua 1981-1990 (contras), Granada 1988. Even though these countries received the support of the USA either through monetary contributions or aid of some sort, it was never without a price. Dictators who didn't please the USA were removed, those who did not have an ''American'' friendly attitude were also removed... if you had socialist tendencies you were removed. So why then are there complaints here from people that cannot see why the dislike might be so obvious through the postings on this thread.

    It's political support of many régimes throughout the world and throughout it's history. How will you not see the animosity that people have towards this country. That is not to say that the anger is directed at you and me per say, but it is understood that ''with great power comes great responsibility''. Responsibility that as the ''big brother'' you will treat your lesser siblings as equals and with respect.

    That is how empires grow and prosper, they don't do it by being nice and good. You can see this throughout the history of the USA. In the 1800s it was Mexico, Canada and Spain who lost to the USA either through war or forced diplomacy you can see how much territory the USA gained from them. In the 1900s it was overseas expansion, first throughout the Pacific and when it had its chance to counteract the Germans and the Russians through both world wars, it established bases and alliances throughout Europe.

    Remember Wilson's 14 points and the theory of self-determination, well that was only aimed at oppressed Europeans in the Austro-Hungarian/German empire who wanted to break away, but it did not apply to native Americans, to Puerto-Ricans, to blacks (at that time they were still segregated), so how can one not understand the anger and dislike that many if not most people throughout the world have against the USA? It only suffices to turn a history book's pages open and read.

    Throughtout history the conqueror has always been disliked.
     

    modgirl

    Senior Member
    USA English, French, Russian
    Augusto-Cesar said:
    Si los estadounidenses aquí presentes se sienten molestos o dicen que no sabían que existía tanta animosidad contra su país, sólo basta ver la televisión y escuchar las noticias, ver las imágenes de personas alrededor del mundo que protestan en contra de la agresión
    Perhaps that's part of the problem. We're judging by what we see on the news, not by what we're experiencing for ourselves. Obviously, we just can't pack up and travel all over the world every time we want to find out what's going on! But, it seems that the harsh judgments are occuring by what we've heard others say.

    Here's an example. Several years ago, my aunt (from the States) visited Iran with a Canadian tour group. Most of the people we see on the news from Iran are the screaming ones with the "Death to America (sic)" signs waving in the air. So, she was rather hesitant to admit her identity.

    Well, somehow it slipped and people found out she was from the States. She was completely overwhelmed by people's reactions. They treated her like a queen! They were exceptionally warm, friendly, and generous. Likewise, they were shocked at her very friendly and polite behavior because they thought that she was a war monger and hated Iran!

    Back to news: even what seems to be the truth isn't necessarily so. Someone is always behind the camera deciding what to videotape or film. And someone else makes the decisions as to what exactly to broadcast. Thus, perceptions and realities are quite often shaped by the manner in which the "information" is presented.
     

    Augusto-Cesar

    Senior Member
    USA: Spanish (Standard)
    Hail me the great Caesar!

    I must say, that if someone is to quote me, their response should be based entirely on the quote. I said, "people are protesting against the agression" meaning, the US government attacking their country. I never said protesting the people as in you and me personally. Of course, I have nothing against the Iranians, or Iraqis or Middle Easterners of any kind (I love their food, culture, etc.) but it is their governments and possibly some of their fellow peers who are bent on killing, that's what I personally am against. And that also applies to fellow Unitedstaters who think highly of themselves and look down on others.

    I Caesar Augustus Emperor said this! ;)

    PS: I have lived and travelled all over the world, I speak from experience, not from what I saw on television.
     

    srsh

    Senior Member
    Mexico, Español
    modgirl said:
    Back to news: even what seems to be the truth isn't necessarily so. Someone is always behind the camera deciding what to videotape or film. And someone else makes the decisions as to what exactly to broadcast. Thus, perceptions and realities are quite often shaped by the manner in which the "information" is presented.
    Exactly... thats one of the main reasons why citizens of the United States think that - for example - the war in Iraq has the only goal of helping opressed people, because thats what they see on CNN. If Iraq (for example) had that broadcasting power, opinions would be different. I mean, after september 11, what do we see on CNN? A girl form NY who has lost her mother, with an US flag as a background with John Lennon´s Imagine as a soundtrack, I mean, I dont blame citizens for believing thats the only reality, while they dont broadcast the videos of citizens from Iraq being tortured by US soldiers, videos that actually broadcasted for example here in Mexico and in the rest of the world.
     

    modgirl

    Senior Member
    USA English, French, Russian
    Augusto-Cesar said:
    I said, "people are protesting against the agression" meaning, the US government attacking their country.
    I understood what you said. But do you think that the way the news is presented has any bearing on how it is perceived? What is "helping" and what is "aggression"?

    I'm not going to argue specific cases, so I'm speaking of generalities.

    To illustrate, there was a photo, sometime back, of a poor little Palestianian boy who was being carried away by Israeli soldiers. The little guy had even wet his pants, as evidenced by the picture. The photo immediately brings sympathy for the little boy -- those soldiers just being mean to him. It was definitely an act of aggression against a Palestinian, right?

    Maybe not....later, some photos emerged that showed that "poor" little boy was throwing rocks at the soldiers. He was not an innocent bystander. The only thing the soldiers were doing was carrying him away and disarming him so he couldn't harm others.

    But, if you didn't have that piece of information, the story looked quite different.
     
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