"and" is extremely confusing

Discussion in 'English Only' started by MAKIVAKI, Sep 5, 2009.

  1. MAKIVAKI Member

    Shanghai
    chinese
    In the structure of coordination, similar patterns are often joined by and, but the and makes me feel exhausted.:confused: I need your help.

    1, "...She wished to discard the traditional methods and established vocabularies of such dance forms as ballet and to explore the internal source of human expressiveness."

    I think there are 3 explanations: (1) She wished to discard the traditional methods. And she established vocabularies... (2) She wished to discard the traditional methods. And she wished to establish vocabularies... (In this case, it seems that the sentence should be "She wished to discard the traditional methods and to establish vocabularies". Right?) And (3) She wished to discard the traditional methods and established vocabularies...

    :eek:When I am finished with above words, It seems that I had already given the answer that (3) should be correct explanation. Right?

    <<--- >>


    Thank you so much:)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 5, 2009
  2. Cagey post mod (English Only / Latin)

    California
    English - US
    Let's try one of these at a time, or we will all be confused together.;)
    Please make a second thread for your second question.

    In this thread we can discuss the first sentence:

    1, "...She wished
    (A) to discard the traditional methods and established vocabularies of such dance forms as ballet and

    (B) to explore the internal source of human expressiveness."
    So, yes, your third explanation is correct. Notice that the repeated "to" introduces each of the two things she wished to do.

    Does this make things clear?
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2009
  3. MAKIVAKI Member

    Shanghai
    chinese
    But, how about (1)
    ...She wished to discard the traditional methods,
    and she established vocabularies of such dance forms as ballet,
    and she wished to explore.....


    Ok, I will make another thread on the second question
     
  4. Cagey post mod (English Only / Latin)

    California
    English - US
    She wished to discard
    A) the traditional methods and
    B) [the] established vocabularies of such dance forms as ballet and ...
    She wanted to discard those two things. I think you would have understood this more easily with the, so I added it. However, it is not wrong to leave it out.

    Established has to describe "vocabularies". If it were something she wished to do, it would be establish, as you say in your explanation (2).
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2009
  5. GreenWhiteBlue

    GreenWhiteBlue Senior Member

    The City of New York
    USA - English
    Much of your confusion springs from the word "established". In this sentence, "established" is not a past tense of a verb which has as "she" as its subject. It is instead an adjective that describes "vocbularies".
     
  6. MAKIVAKI Member

    Shanghai
    chinese
    Yeah, I understand now with 'the" here, but why can't "established" and "wished" are parallel verbs?

    If I want to express this meaning how should I say?

    Or actually any verbs can't parallel "wish", and must parallel the infinitive after "wish"

    Wish to do..., and to do...
     
  7. Forero Senior Member

    Houston, Texas, USA
    USA English
    Choice 2 does not work because, as you have noticed established is not an infinitive.
    Choice 1 does not work either because in it "and to explore" has nothing to join up with.
    Choice 3 is the only one that makes sense, with a compound noun phrase governed by a single definite article and with "to explore" joining up with "to discard" as a compound complement of wished.
     
  8. Cagey post mod (English Only / Latin)

    California
    English - US
    They could be parallel verbs if the rest of the sentence weren't there. The content doesn't make sense, but in theory, the beginning could be a sentence:
    "...She wished to discard the traditional methods and [she] established vocabularies of such dance forms as ballet.
    What keeps us from reading it like this is the second infinitive, "to explore". As forero says, to make sense of that, we have to understand it with "wished". If we do that, we read the earlier phrase as governed by the infinitive as well "to discard". We can't insert a different construction between them ([she] established ....).
     
  9. Valvs Senior Member

    Moscow, Russia
    Russian
    Now that you've mentioned it, it is hard to think of a naturally-sounding sentence where "wish" and another verb would be used as coordinate verbs in the same clause.
    This is one of the reasons why only the third interpretation of your sentence is possible. The other one is the obvious parallelism of "traditional methods" and "established vocabularies".
     
  10. MAKIVAKI Member

    Shanghai
    chinese
    :)

    Thank all of you so much

    I got it
     

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