apprentiship

Maroseika

Maroseika

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From Fuller's "The holy state" (1642):

And now I will turn my pen into prayer, That God would be pleased to discloud these gloomy dayes with the beams of his mercie: which if I may be so happy as to see, it will then encourage me to count it freedome to serve two apprentiships (God spinning out the thick thred of my life so long) in writing the Ecclesiasticall History from Christs time to our dayes, if I shall from remoter parts be so planted as to enjoy the benefit of walking, and standing Libraries, without which advantages the best vigilancie doth but vainly dream to undertake such a task.

Apprentiship is being apprentice (a person who is learning a trade from a skilled employer). But here it seems to mean something like vacation (calling, mission), because I don't see who might be presumed to be "a skilled emloyer" even figuratively.
Can it be so?
And am I right that two apprentiships (whatever it means) are writing the ecclesiasticall history and walking and standing Libraries ("as" meaning "and also" or "as well as")?
 
    • That’s tough.
    I think you’re on the right lines though.

    It’s a non-literal use of apprenticeship.
    But a concept that would have been very familiar then.
    It’s usually something young men start on. So it’s part of Fuller’s “modesty” or self-effacement to compare himself to a young person starting a trade. He’s setting off to write an epic text and will need a long life and lots of studying to finish his task.
    Maroseika said:
    From Fuller's "The holy state" (1642):

    And now I will turn my pen into prayer, That God would be pleased to discloud these gloomy dayes with the beams of his mercie: which if I may be so happy as to see, it will then encourage me to count it freedome to serve two apprentiships (God spinning out the thick thred of my life so long) in writing the Ecclesiasticall History from Christs time to our dayes, if I shall from remoter parts be so planted, as to enjoy the benefit of walking, and standing Libraries, without which advantages the best vigilancie doth but vainly dream to undertake such a task.

    Apprentiship is being apprentice (a person who is learning a trade from a skilled employer). But here it seems to mean something like vacation (calling, mission), because I don't see who might be presumed to be "a skilled emloyer" even figuratively.
    Can it be so?
    And am I right that two apprentiships (whatever it means) are writing the ecclesiasticall history and walking and standing Libraries ("as" meaning "and also" or "as well as")?
    Click to expand...
     
    Thank you.
    So what are these two appreticeships? Or better say how should we understand this part:

    if I shall from remoter parts be so planted, as to enjoy the benefit of walking:

    if I shall from remoter parts be so planted, that will be able to enjoy the benefit of walking
    or
    "if I shall from remoter parts be so planted" refers to the first apprentiship,
    and
    "to enjoy the benefit of walking" is the second apprentiship?
     
    I think it’s
    1. Writing the history
    2. Being able to walk in/ use libraries

    He needs the library to inform the writing.
     
    suzi br said:
    I think it’s
    1. Writing the history
    2. Being able to walk in/ use libraries

    He needs the library to inform the writing.
    Click to expand...
    So walking and standing libraries refers to same apprentiship?
    I'm afraid now I'm completely lost with what does "I shall from remoter parts be so planted".
     
    Here's my attempt. It may be far off target.

    I hope God will allow me a long enough life to serve two apprentiships in writing the Ecclesiastical History. The first to spend seven years (the normal period of an apprenticeship) to enjoy the benefit of walking. The second to spend seven years in Libraries. Without these two advantages the keenest mind vainly dreams to undertake such a task.
     
    Maroseika said:
    So walking and standing libraries refers to same apprentiship?
    I'm afraid now I'm completely lost with what does "I shall from remoter parts be so planted".
    Click to expand...
    They never used one phrase when they could use six. 😃
    Tussles with sentence structures are always hard with these old texts.
    I am sure the business of “being able to be in a library” is the WHOLE 2nd apprenticeship. Because without that resource he can’t write a complete history. Which is his primary goal

    The bit about remote parts must relate to wherever he lives compared to where the libraries are. He can’t study in the countryside. He needs to be in London or Oxford, Cambridge or maybe a big cathedral city to access the material he needs.
     
    And as you see, two native speakers have glossed it differently. I think Keith is putting more emphasis on that comma between walking, and standing in libraries. I am reading that as both activities IN the libraries.

    Take your pick!
     
    Maroseika said:
    Apprentiship is being apprentice (a person who is learning a trade from a skilled employer).
    Click to expand...
    :thumbsup:
    1. learning by writing the Ecclesiasticall History from Christs time to our dayes
    2. learning from standing Libraries,

    It is important to understand that, at the time that the book was written, an apprenticeship involved a young man leaving his home town/village and travelling the countryside on foot offering himself as an apprentice to numerous craftsmen.
     
    Last edited:
    One more example of this word not very clear for me (from the chapter "The good merchant":

    But how long shall I be retailing out rules to this Merchant? It would employ a Casuist an apprentiship of years: take our Saviours whole-sale rule, Whatsoever ye would have men do unto you, do you unto them; for this is the Low, and the Prophets.

    Does it mean 7-year apprentiship of a hypotetical causist?
     
    .. for this is the Law ..
    Hypothetical
    Apprenticeship ( when you write it, even though it was written differently in 1642.)
    In the passage you cite the length of the Casuist's apprenticeship is not stated, but, yes, the basic idea is that it would take years for a hypothetical Casuist apprentice to detail all the rules, so instead it is best to concentrate on "Do unto others..."
     
    It looks to me as though the term "apprenticeship" in both contexts just has the meaning "a period of seven years".

    Definitions 3 and 4 in the OED:
    3. The period for which an apprentice is bound.
    4. Hence: A period of seven years.
     
    Loob said:
    It looks to me as though the term "apprenticeship" in both contexts just has the meaning "a period of seven years".

    Definitions 3 and 4 in the OED:
    3. The period for which an apprentice is bound.
    4. Hence: A period of seven years.
    Click to expand...
    The problem is that the earliest example of the last meaning is dated 1780 in OED. Can it be used in the cited example more generally, just as the period of an apprenticeship?
     
    Maroseika said:
    The problem is
    Click to expand...
    From The House of Commons Library: https://commonslibrary.parliament.u...val-craft-guilds-to-the-twenty-first-century/

    The first national apprenticeship system of training was introduced in 1563 by the Statute of Artificers, which included conditions which could be likened to apprenticeship minimum standards today; Masters should have no more than three apprentices and apprenticeships should last seven years. The Act was repealed 251 years later as the popularity of apprenticeships waned in the early nineteenth century, partly due to conditions in factories and the perceived exploitation of young apprentices.
    Click to expand...

    Thus, at the time of Fuller's writing, it was well-known that apprenticeships were for 7 years.
     
    Maroseika said:
    Apprentiship is being apprentice (a person who is learning a trade from a skilled employer). But here it seems to mean something like vacation (calling, mission), because I don't see who might be presumed to be "a skilled emloyer" even figuratively.
    Click to expand...
    You mean "vocation". I think the contrast is between freedom and apprenticeship, not apprenticeship and mastery. An apprentice was notoriously bound to his master in a slave-like contract. The writer will be devoting himself totally to this work.
     
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