Aramaic: Jesus and Daniela

Discussion in 'Other Languages' started by danalto, Apr 3, 2005.

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  1. danalto

    danalto Senior Member

    Roma, Italia, Europa
    Italy - Italian
    Hello, all! I would like to know how Jesus and Daniela are written in Aramaic.
    I have been looking for the alphabet on the Net, without success. Any hints?
    Thank you for your help! :)
     
  2. Whodunit

    Whodunit Senior Member

    กรุงเทพมหานคร
    Deutschland ~ Deutsch/Sächsisch
    Here is the main site of the Aramaic language.
    Here you have some information in English about the Aramaic language that uses, by the way, the Hebrew letters. Here is the Hebrew alphabet I've once learned:

    א
    ב
    ג
    ד
    ה
    ו
    ז
    ח
    ט
    י
    כ, ד
    ל
    מ, ם
    נ, ן
    ס
    ע
    פ, ף
    צ, ץ
    ק
    ך
    ש
    ת

    Unfortunately, I don't know how to type a "dagesh (a point in the middle of a letter to make a stronger sound)".

    Hope this helps.
     
  3. danalto

    danalto Senior Member

    Roma, Italia, Europa
    Italy - Italian
    Danke sehr, whodunit! :D
     
  4. Whodunit

    Whodunit Senior Member

    กรุงเทพมหานคร
    Deutschland ~ Deutsch/Sächsisch
    Non c'è di che. (Hope it's correct)
     
  5. danalto

    danalto Senior Member

    Roma, Italia, Europa
    Italy - Italian
    Perfect! Kennst du auch Italienisch? [​IMG]
     
  6. utopia Senior Member

    Israel, Hebrew
    Hi whodunit,

    My way to write dagesh is first write the letter צ for example.

    Then press Caps Lock,

    Then press Shift + = . (+= key, near the backspace).


    צּ OR פּ OR בּ


    And the same way is applied to writing nikkud, using the caps lock then the shift + numbers.

    I'm not sure it would work with your computers, but you can try it out!:)
     
  7. JLanguage Senior Member

    Georgia, US
    USA: American English, Learning Hebrew and Spanish
    Writing Nikkudot on the Computer is impossibly time-consuming. Same goes for the Dagesh and Cantillation Marks.
     
  8. utopia Senior Member

    Israel, Hebrew
    nEkuddot is the correct word, and yes, it takes time, so it's not used for every day purposes, but only when one needs to differentiate one word from another when they are written the same - homographs.

    And even then we usually don't include dagesh except for בכפ letters.

    When we cite the bible though we tend to do it with nikkud (diacretic signs).
     
  9. utopia Senior Member

    Israel, Hebrew
    nekudda - plural: nekuddot = spots, points.


    nikkud, usually has no plural, is diacritic signs - spots, lines and other stuff, including dagesh.
    If it has a plural (which is not used) it should be nikkudim.
     
  10. Whodunit

    Whodunit Senior Member

    กรุงเทพมหานคร
    Deutschland ~ Deutsch/Sächsisch
    I see and I managed it: בּ, גּ, דּ, כּ, פּ, תּ

    But I've never seen a צ with dagesh. How do you pronounce it?

    Nevertheless, it's exhausting to press so many keys for one single point.

    And talking about the nekkuda, tell me please where's the difference in these "a" sounds:

    ַ
    ָ
    ֲ

    And how do you pronounce ְ ? I guessed it's pronounced like a slight 'e'.

    Thanks for your help.
     
  11. utopia Senior Member

    Israel, Hebrew
    well unlike the ב כ פ which are pronounced V CH (like scottish ch) and F when without a dagesh and B K P when they have a dagesh, other letters in Hebrew that get a dagesh are pronounced the same:

    צ is pronounced ts - either with or without a dagesh.

    the way to pronounce ְ is like an ordinary E sound, usually, but sometimes we pronounce it as a short vowel (half a vowel) or no vowel: MEGILLA is a scroll.

    It can be pronounced either MEgila or MGila. the second pronounciation is usually heard after HA (=the) or something similar (a word that ends in a vowel).

    The ֲ ַ AND ָ are pronounced the same. The first one is only to be used with what usued to be gutterals and today are ח ch (as the scottish ch), ע which is pronounced like א usually, א and ה .

    In the bible one can find those ֳ ֲ ֱ with other letters than gutterals.

    the ָ has two ways of pronounciation: A or O. The O sound is in specific places.
     
  12. Whodunit

    Whodunit Senior Member

    กรุงเทพมหานคร
    Deutschland ~ Deutsch/Sächsisch
    ,utopia שלום

    I really appreciate your help. The reason why I asked for ְ was, because I read הַתִּקְוָה with this 'vowel'. Since I only heard "HaTikvah" and not "HaTikevah".
     
  13. utopia Senior Member

    Israel, Hebrew
    In any case it should be hatiKva and never hatiKEva! since this shva is a silent one - not a half vowel.

    When it's not at the beginning of a word or a syllable it's a "dormant"? shva.

    In Hebrew we call this no-vowel shva a resting shve and the half-vowel one a moving shva.

    :D
     
  14. Whodunit

    Whodunit Senior Member

    กรุงเทพมหานคร
    Deutschland ~ Deutsch/Sächsisch
    Ah, funny names!

    I think I got it now. Thanks.
     
  15. xav

    xav Senior Member

    Paris
    France
    Why then in Aramaic, not in Hebrew ??
    I think Daniela would be, as in Hebrew, Danie'la, written
    ָנִיֵאלָה






    Daleth (dagesh+qamats), noon (hiriq), yod (tséré), aleph (alone), lamed (qamats), hé (alone) - Aleph lamed is God's noun



    For Jesus's name, thing are a bit more difficult, as well in Hebrew as in Aramaic
    The hebrew name of Jesus should have been
    יֵשׁוּﬠַ
    Yeshua - Yod (tséré), shin(alone), vav (with dagesh) and ayn (patah) - the ayn at the end is difficult to say and to hear (ask a sefarad Jew).

    But the aramaic form of this noun isn't well known. It seems it was, at the beginning of our era
    יָשׁוֹ
    Yasho

    Hope it will help
    I'd be interested to know why you ask that ??
     
  16. amikama

    amikama sordomodo

    ישראל
    עברית
    The ד and the tsere are misplaced - it should be דָּנִיאֵלָה (dalet at beginning of the word, the tsere under alef and not yud).

    That's true. But nowadays his name is ישו (yeshu - without 'ain).
     
  17. utopia Senior Member

    Israel, Hebrew
    amikama,

    אני מייעץ לך לא להגיד לנוצרים מאמינים שישו נכתב בלי עי"ן, כיוון שהם עלולים להיעלב, גם אם הם לא אומרים זאת.

    היום, אפילו היום ניתן לומר ישוע (או ישו) אבל השם שלו אצל הנוצרים הוא בדר"כ עם עי"ן.
     
  18. Jana337

    Jana337 Senior Member

    čeština
    I am afraid we have a problem: Symbols like ( refuse to coexist peacefully with some scripts. Please refer to this thread, posts 11, 13, 14. I promise to alert Mike - if there's an intelligent solution to this problem, he will surely find it.

    Thanks for understanding.

    Jana
     
  19. amikama

    amikama sordomodo

    ישראל
    עברית
    רשמתי לפניי את הערתך.

    ועכשיו תורי לייעץ לך... כשאתה כותב בעברית - תשתמש בסוגריים מרובעים [] ולא בעגולים () כדי שלא יתחרבש לך. לפחות בינתיים עד שיתקנו את הבאג הזה במערכת.
     
  20. utopia Senior Member

    Israel, Hebrew
    :) קיבלתי את הערתך, תודה
     
  21. xav

    xav Senior Member

    Paris
    France

    About Daniela, sorry, the Dalet had fallen down in the manipulations. I thought the tséré was under the 'alef, as you say ; but I was much surprised to see that the Bible (Book of Daniel) writes (as you !!) the tséré under the Yud. See for example 5,17, third word.
    And there's a dagesh in the Yud, so that the correct spelling seems to be




    לדָּנִיֵּא


    (please read the lamed at the end, I haven't been able in one hour to correct this problem between Word and WordReference :mad: )

    for Daniel, and


    הדָּנֽיֵּלָ


    (please read the hé at the end, same thing :mad: :mad: )

    for Daniela.
     
  22. Josh_ Senior Member

    the phrontistery
    U.S., English
    ܝܫܘܥ
    (yeshua or sometimes eesho)
    Jesus


    ܕܢܝܐܝܠܐ

    Daniela
     
  23. danalto

    danalto Senior Member

    Roma, Italia, Europa
    Italy - Italian
    Thank you josh! :)
     

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