Aramaic: Jesus

Ander

Senior Member
France
Does anyone know the name Jesus had in Aramaic knowing that his Hebrew name is Yeshu3a? "3" stands for 3ayin.
 
  • Shlama_98

    Member
    Syriac Aramaic/Iraq
    It's "Yeshu3" in Aramaic and this is how we pronounce it "Eee-shu3".

    The way to spell it in Aramaic is exactly the same way spelling it in Hebrew which is yod-sheen-waw-3ayin.
     

    Ander

    Senior Member
    France
    It's "Yeshu3" in Aramaic and this is how we pronounce it "Eee-shu3".

    The way to spell it in Aramaic is exactly the same way spelling it in Hebrew which is yod-sheen-waw-3ayin.
    Thank you for your answer. I am a little bit confused by your transliteration. It is "ye-" and "eee-".

    Let's forget the English pronunciation of letters and let's use the Latin, Spanish or Italian way of pronouncing.
    "E" like in the town name Merida or the Israeli shekel, "y" is the semi-consonant of "yes" and the English "ee" is "i". OK?

    So is it Yeshu3 or Ishu3?

    I was actually asking for the name Jesus HAD in Aramaic. I meant at the time he was living in Palestine.
     

    scriptum

    Senior Member
    Israel / Hebrew, Russian
    I was actually asking for the name Jesus HAD in Aramaic. I meant at the time he was living in Palestine.
    To the best of my knowledge, there is no evidence that Jesus had an Aramaic name that was different from the Hebrew one: Yehoshua' (' = ayin). NB In the 1st century's Palestine there were 3 languages in use: Aramaic, Hebrew and Greek. Nobody seems to know which of them Jesus spoke. Nobody seems to know what was the original language of the Gospels. So nobody seems to know how Jesus' name was actually pronounced.
     

    Shlama_98

    Member
    Syriac Aramaic/Iraq
    Thank you for your answer. I am a little bit confused by your transliteration. It is "ye-" and "eee-".

    Let's forget the English pronunciation of letters and let's use the Latin, Spanish or Italian way of pronouncing.
    "E" like in the town name Merida or the Israeli shekel, "y" is the semi-consonant of "yes" and the English "ee" is "i". OK?

    So is it Yeshu3 or Ishu3?

    I was actually asking for the name Jesus HAD in Aramaic. I meant at the time he was living in Palestine.
    I can't exactly tell you which name Jesus used himself but I can safely tell you that his name in Aramaic is Eeshu3, in other words the way you spelled Ishu3 is what I'm reffering to, not Yeshu3 (I only put it cause I was thinking some ppl would understand it or pronounce it that way with the Y).
     

    Whodunit

    Senior Member
    Deutschland ~ Deutsch/Sächsisch
    If it should be Jesus Christ, they would use Jesus Messiah (Ee-sho Mshee-khaa) according to this page. It would be written as ܝܼܫܘܿܥ ܡܫܝܼܚܵܐ , if I can see it well. We might explain how come that a yod can be pronounced as ee etc.:


    ܝܼ - yodh + khwasa vowel = ee
    ܫ - sheen
    ܘܿ - waw + rwakha vowel = oo (as in Spanish llorar)
    ܥ - aih (silent here)
    ܡ - meem
    ܫ - sheen
    ܝܼ - yod + khwasa vowel = ee
    ܚܵ - kheth + zqapa vowel (long aa)
    ܐ - alep (just to lengthen the last aa)
     

    Shlama_98

    Member
    Syriac Aramaic/Iraq
    The ayin in Jesus' name is not silent, it's actually pronounced when we reffer to Jesus Christ, but depending on the dialect some would say Ee-shu3 and others would say Ee-shu2 (The two is like a light ayin).

    You would only hear Ee-sho if it's a person's name.
     

    Allegro

    New Member
    Belgium Hebrew
    Does anyone know the name Jesus had in Aramaic knowing that his Hebrew name is Yeshu3a? "3" stands for 3ayin.
    The name of Jesus originally in Hebrew is "Ye-Ho-Shu-3a" which means "God will salvage". Every Jew in the land of Israel had a Hebrew name as later in the Diaspora. The main spoken languages were Hebrew and Aramaic (which was then the local "English"). Greek was spoken only by few mainly in the coastal towns but the Hebrew absorbed some of its phrases as well influenced back on the Greek.


    Aramaic was the common "market" talks and sure Jesus spoke both languages as the average person did.



    Now about the Aramaic. There is quite a problem because the Aramaic that was spoken in the days of Jesus was from the western branch of Aramaic and not the Eastern one as spoken by few today in East Syria and north Iraq. The western Aramaic was much closer to Hebrew (as written in the Talmud and Gmara) than to now days Aramaic. In today's Aramaic they call Jesus: "Eashoa". Most probably Jesus was called in Aramaic as: "Ye-Ho-Sha3a" and "Ye-Shu-3a" (the last is a silent Ayin with Shva : under).
     

    Ander

    Senior Member
    France
    It seems from the different answers that Yeshu3a could have been pronounced in Aramaic ishu3, ishu' (apostrophe is a hamza or aleph), yeshu3, yeshu', isho3, isho'.

    As Jesus spoke Western Aramaic some of those pronunciations could be eliminated. For example, the change of 3ayin into a hamza/aleph sound could be a modern feature. It is the case in present-day Arabic.

    I do not indicate long vowels not to complicate the matter.
     

    Shlama_98

    Member
    Syriac Aramaic/Iraq
    The name of Jesus originally in Hebrew is "Ye-Ho-Shu-3a" which means "God will salvage". Every Jew in the land of Israel had a Hebrew name as later in the Diaspora. The main spoken languages were Hebrew and Aramaic (which was then the local "English"). Greek was spoken only by few mainly in the coastal towns but the Hebrew absorbed some of its phrases as well influenced back on the Greek.


    Aramaic was the common "market" talks and sure Jesus spoke both languages as the average person did.



    Now about the Aramaic. There is quite a problem because the Aramaic that was spoken in the days of Jesus was from the western branch of Aramaic and not the Eastern one as spoken by few today in East Syria and north Iraq. The western Aramaic was much closer to Hebrew (as written in the Talmud and Gmara) than to now days Aramaic. In today's Aramaic they call Jesus: "Eashoa". Most probably Jesus was called in Aramaic as: "Ye-Ho-Sha3a" and "Ye-Shu-3a" (the last is a silent Ayin with Shva : under).
    Western Aramaic is not dead, it's still spoken in 3 villages in Syria and a friend of mine has made a trip to Ma'lula which is one of the villages there, Ee-shu3 is how they pronounce Jesus' name and I even have an audio file somewhere which is a prayer in Western Aramaic where the name Ee-shu3 is pronounced, I'll try to find it and post it.

    The thing is Jesus lived in a Jewish community, so if his name is Yeshu3a as you say it's not because this is the Aramaic way of saying it, it's more like maybe the Aramaic that was spoken in those days in that region had a heavy Hebrew influence in it and some of the names probably remained with their Hebrew pronunciation rather than switch to Aramaic, there are many cases like that.
     

    Whodunit

    Senior Member
    Deutschland ~ Deutsch/Sächsisch
    The ayin in Jesus' name is not silent, it's actually pronounced when we reffer to Jesus Christ, but depending on the dialect some would say Ee-shu3 and others would say Ee-shu2 (The two is like a light ayin).
    The ayin has become silent in the modern Semitic languages except for Arabic. As you know, in Hebrew it is either pronounced as a glottal stop (2) or not at all. As far as I know, the Old Aramaic (when Jesus was believed to have lived) pronunciation was a pharygealized glottal stop, not really the MSA ع. I can't even find a proper IPA symbol for such a sound and have no idea how to distinguish it audibly from a voiced pharygealized fricative. Maybe you can. :)

    But I agree that I shouldn't have written silent here, as it can be confusing.

    You would only hear Ee-sho if it's a person's name.
    I thought it was a person's name in Jesus Christ?
     

    Shlama_98

    Member
    Syriac Aramaic/Iraq
    The ayin has become silent in the modern Semitic languages except for Arabic. As you know, in Hebrew it is either pronounced as a glottal stop (2) or not at all. As far as I know, the Old Aramaic (when Jesus was believed to have lived) pronunciation was a pharygealized glottal stop, not really the MSA ع. I can't even find a proper IPA symbol for such a sound and have no idea how to distinguish it audibly from a voiced pharygealized fricative. Maybe you can. :)

    But I agree that I shouldn't have written silent here, as it can be confusing.



    I thought it was a person's name in Jesus Christ?
    The ayin has become silent or a softer one in some Aramaic dialects but it remains in some other dialects.

    As for Jesus' name, well it is a person's name but what I'm trying to say is among the modern Aramaic speaking Christian communities (Assyrians) Ee-shu3 or Ee-shu2 is never given to a normal person as a name, it's always Ee-shu without the 3 or 2 sound in the end, the ayin is only pronounced when It's Jesus Christ's name.
     
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