Aramaic (Suryoyo) kthobo versus sefro

Michael Zwingli

Senior Member
English (U.S.A. - New England)
Modern Suryoyo Aramaic has two words for book: kthobo (cognate with Arabic kitab) and sefro (cognate with Hebrew sefer). What is the essential semantic difference between these two terms?
 
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  • I have no firsthand knowledge to answer this. However, I can point you to surayt.com, which has some resources for this language (Surayt = Turoyo = Suryoyo), including an online textbook with a glossary, and a searchable corpus.

    The glossary has the word kthowo (it's not kthobo), but it seems that it lacks the word sefro.

    PS: Not only is kthowo cognate with Arabic kitāb, but it is also cognate with Hebrew כְּתָב.
     
    However, I can point you to surayt.com, which has some resources for this language (Surayt = Turoyo = Suryoyo),
    As I understand it, this is modern Syrian Aramaic that we are learning about (written in Suryoyo script), as opposed to “Assyrian Neo-Aramaic” (written in Estrangele script) or “Chaldean Neo-Aramaic” (ditto), which are both modern Iraqi varieties of Aramaic.
    glossary has the word kthowo (it's not kthobo)
    Hmm…I’m almost certain the Malfono (teacher) said kthobo. Well, no bother at this stage. The online resources should be of great help.

    After reading the preface, I think I see that this is Turoyo (Turkish) dialect, rather than Suryoyo (Syrian) dialect of modern Western Aramaic. Suryoyo is a bit closer to Hebrew than is Turoyo, more influenced by the eastern dialects (Assyrian and Chaldean) of Aramaic. This might account for a few differences in the glossary and in syntax, such as the absence of sefro for “book”. I will still undoubtedly find it helpful, though.
     
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    Assyrian / Chaldean is not Turoyo. The site I linked to is for Turoyo.

    My understanding is that Suryoyo is Turoyo and similar dialects. They are close to the Turkey-Syria border and are spoken on both sides of the border. Additionally, the forms of words that you give line up perfectly with Turoyo (except for the b).

    However, it is quite possible that Suryoyo is a highly ambiguous term that can refer to different dialects.

    If by Western you mean dialects like Maaloula, then it is a very different dialect indeed.
     
    I’m a bit confused why you’re asking us these questions rather than your teacher.
    Well, this is a Syriac Orthodox Church, and the primary language of most of the older people in the church is Arabic. Since the class, apart from myself, is composed of about eight older people, the languages of instruction in the class are a mixture of Arabic and English. The teacher of the class doesn’t speak perfect English, so he sometimes has great trouble in explaining the nuances of semantic distinction, word morphology, and grammar in English, though he can do so very well in Arabic. He did say that sefro was used in a certain compound word, and that kthobo was the primary word for book, but could not effectively explain further. I’m addition, the class is held once a week on Saturday afternoons, and I cannot attend every week because of work. As I find myself interested in Aramaic, I jumped at the chance to sit in on this class, despite the difficulties presented; there aren’t many classes in Aramaic to be found anywhere. What else am I to do? I found a couple of grammars for Aramaic online, but haven’t availed myself of one yet. These are why I asked about it in the forum.
     
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    Ok but I don’t think there are any native speakers of Syriac or Turoyo here : I was thinking that your teacher could at least clarify what language he was using.
     
    Ok but I don’t think there are any native speakers of Syriac or Turoyo here : I was thinking that your teacher could at least clarify what language he was using.
    It is called Suryoyo, and from what I have been able to read, it is a dialect in common with Turoyo which is spoken in an area on the Syrian-Turkish border; Turoyo dialect of this type of Aramaic is spoken on the Turkish side, and Suryoyo (which apparently in Aramaic also refers to “Syriac”) on the Syrian, and they are essentially the same language. These are classified as “Central Aramaic” dialects. What I would really like to learn, in actuality, is that spoken in the original Aramaic homeland close to the Lebanese border (in only three villages…that dialect is severely endangered), the one remaining “Western Aramaic” dialect called in Aramaic Siryon. It’s all really very confusing, are the varieties of modern Aramaic and their names. Just see here:
    Syriac language - Wikipedia
    Suryoyo language - Wikipedia
    Turoyo language - Wikipedia
    Mlaḥsô language - Wikipedia
    Western Neo-Aramaic - Wikipedia

    See what I mean? It is an astounding confusion of dialects! I had to make these determinations myself (thank God for Wikipedia!); having the teacher of my class try to explain this in English would be like an exercise in torture.
     
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    There’s a book in French on the Siryon dialect if that could be of use to you. I’m not sure you’ll find much other support outside Syria
     
    There’s a book in French on the Siryon dialect if that could be of use to you. I’m not sure you’ll find much other support outside Syria
    Well, thank you for that! I don’t speak French, but I know enough to get the gist of a grammar. Please, do you know the title and author?
     
    Title: L'ARAMÉEN PARLÉ À MAALOULA
    Author : Issam Francis

    You can find it at lulu dot com.
    Apparently the same author wrote a book in English as well: The Spoken Aramaic of Maaloula the Language of Christ the Lord.

    I wonder if there is a difference in content or quality.
     
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