Are you certain you're right? Sometimes people can be fooled.

  • elroy

    Imperfect Mod
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    diegodbs said:
    ¿Estás seguro de que tienes razón? Algunas veces se nos puede engañar.
    Can this "nos" be used in a general sense, like the English "people" in the original sentence?
     

    diegodbs

    Senior Member
    Spain-Spanish
    elroy said:
    Can this "nos" be used in a general sense, like the English "people" in the original sentence?
    Sí, hay varias maneras de decirlo en español:

    - Nos engañan fácilmente
    - Se puede engañar fácilmente a la gente
    - Se nos engaña fácilmente

    etc. etc.

    Son equivalentes al "people" inglés.

    Quizás decir "gente" tiene un cierto matiz un poquito despectivo, como si tú te quisieras separar de alguna manera de esa "gente" a la que es fácil engañar, pero tú eres más listo que nadie y no te dejas engañar.

    Es muy distinto decir :

    1.- La gente no sabe ni lo que vota.
    2.- No sabemos ni lo que votamos.

    1.- La gente no sabe lo que vota, pero yo sí (porque soy más listo que nadie)
    2.- Todos, en general, no sabemos muy bien qué votamos.
     

    elroy

    Imperfect Mod
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    Thanks for describing the nuance. :) Your explanation is, as always, clear and helpful.

    What do you think of "uno"? Could you say "Algunas veces uno puede engañarse/ser engañado"?
     

    diegodbs

    Senior Member
    Spain-Spanish
    elroy said:
    Thanks for describing the nuance. :) Your explanation is, as always, clear and helpful.

    What do you think of "uno"? Could you say "Algunas veces uno puede engañarse/ser engañado"?
    Sí, claro que se puede decir.

    - Nos pueden engañar fácilmente. (los "malos" son tan hábiles que nos engañan)

    - A uno lo pueden engañar fácilmente (somos tan "tontos" que cualquier persona nos puede engañar)

    Son matices demasiado finos que empleamos de manera casi inconsciente cuando hablamos. Una persona que esté aprendiendo español puede emplear cualquiera de estas expresiones o las anteriores sin ningún problema. Se entienden todas perfectamente y son todas correctas.
     

    Txiri

    Senior Member
    USA English
    You wrote:

    Can this "nos" be used in a general sense, like the English "people" in the original sentence?

    For several minutes, I didn't get what you were asking. I read it several times ... [couldn't find any prior reference to "English" people, no matter] Not to speak for diegod, but why not? In English we say ... "we say" ... and that is very very similar to "they say", "you say", and "one says". I would venture that for "we/they/you/one say(s), "se dice" can be said to handle them all ...

    Is that what you're asking?

    FWIW, while I don't disagree with diegod, I would translate the original thus:

    "¿Está seguro que tiene razón? (Porque) a veces se engaña a las personas."

    "We" have a saying in English, something like, can you count the number of angels dancing on the head of a pin? And the logical response is, no. (However many angels can dance on the head of a pin are too small to see, count, etc ) So if I miss counting one of those angels, or if someone else were to, the ultimate result varies very little. It comes down to how one person sees the original to be translated, and how someone else might see it. As long as the *meaning* is not lost, it's a matter of personal style.
     

    elroy

    Imperfect Mod
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    Txiri said:
    You wrote:

    Can this "nos" be used in a general sense, like the English "people" in the original sentence?

    For several minutes, I didn't get what you were asking. I read it several times ... [couldn't find any prior reference to "English" people, no matter] Not to speak for diegod, but why not? In English we say ... "we say" ... and that is very very similar to "they say", "you say", and "one says". I would venture that for "we/they/you/one say(s), "se dice" can be said to handle them all ...

    Is that what you're asking?
    "Sometimes we can be fooled" does not have the same nuance in English as "sometimes people can be fooled." The former includes the speaker in a much more intimate way with everyone else who can be fooled, while the latter is more distanced and general.

    I was asking what effect the "nos" had in Spanish. As Diego explained, "nos" is general while "la gente" is somewhat condescending.
     

    diegodbs

    Senior Member
    Spain-Spanish
    Txiri said:
    You wrote:

    Can this "nos" be used in a general sense, like the English "people" in the original sentence?

    For several minutes, I didn't get what you were asking. I read it several times ... [couldn't find any prior reference to "English" people, no matter] Not to speak for diegod, but why not? In English we say ... "we say" ... and that is very very similar to "they say", "you say", and "one says". I would venture that for "we/they/you/one say(s), "se dice" can be said to handle them all ...

    Is that what you're asking?

    FWIW, while I don't disagree with diegod, I would translate the original thus:

    "¿Está seguro de que tiene razón? (Porque) a veces se engaña a las personas."

    "We" have a saying in English, something like, can you count the number of angels dancing on the head of a pin? And the logical response is, no. (However many angels can dance on the head of a pin are too small to see, count, etc ) So if I miss counting one of those angels, or if someone else were to, the ultimate result varies very little. It comes down to how one person sees the original to be translated, and how someone else might see it. As long as the *meaning* is not lost, it's a matter of personal style.
    Estoy de acuerdo en una cosa que ha dicho Txiri: "it's a matter of personal style". Pero, para mí, un estilo personal que no responda a lo que quieres expresar sería un estilo "vacío" de contenido, sólo sería un adorno.
    Creo que el fondo de lo que se quiere decir tiene que coincidir con la forma de decirlo.

    En las frases anteriores, si yo siento que a mí no me pueden engañar pero a los demas (por ser tontos) sí, diría "se puede engañar fácilmente a la gente"; si yo me incluyo entre los tontos lo diría de otra manera.
    Estilo personal, sí. Pero estilo que responde a un fondo (a lo que quieres expresar)
     

    CristianPoow

    Senior Member
    Spanish
    Thanks for describing the nuance. :) Your explanation is, as always, clear and helpful.

    What do you think of "uno"? Could you say "Algunas veces uno puede engañarse/ser engañado"?
    "Uno" = "One's"

    My translation would be:
    "Sometimes, one's may be fooled"

    If any error, let me know.
     
    < Previous | Next >
    Top