Are you joking me? or You are joking me, right?

Discussion in 'English Only' started by Aimee J., Mar 12, 2018.

  1. Aimee J.

    Aimee J. Banned

    French - France
    Topic sentences: Are you joking me? or You are joking me, right?
    Added by Cagey, moderator.

    If someone says something that you think is a joke, is it acceptable to say either of these sentences?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 12, 2018
  2. SwissPete

    SwissPete Senior Member

    94044 USA
    Français (CH), AE (California)
    No. "You are kidding me, aren't you?" is what you will hear most of the time.
     
  3. GreenWhiteBlue

    GreenWhiteBlue Senior Member

    The City of New York
    USA - English
    Or "You're joking!" The point, however, is that (unlike "to kid"), "to joke" is not a transitive verb, and never has an object. "You're joking me!" is simply not English.
     
  4. Aimee J.

    Aimee J. Banned

    French - France
    Is it correct to say either "You must be joking!" or "You've got to be joking!"?
     
  5. Hermione Golightly

    Hermione Golightly Senior Member

    London
    British English
    Both of the sentences in #4 are correct.
    "You must be joking!":tick: or "You've got to be joking!"? :tick:
     
  6. Aimee J.

    Aimee J. Banned

    French - France
    Hi, thank you for confirming that the two sentences are correct to use.

    I am a little bit confused about when to avoid using intransitive verbs incorrectly. Are phrases like "don't joke with me" or "don't start joking on with me" incorrect?
     
  7. Aimee J.

    Aimee J. Banned

    French - France
    Can the verb 'joke' ever be a transitive verb? I know some verbs can be either transitive and intransitive.

    Wikipedia states:

    "(transitive, dated) To make merry with; to make jokes upon; to rally.
    to joke a comrade"

    Does that mean 'to joke with me' is incorrect?

    What about the sentence "you have got be joking on with me, you don't really think I believe what you have just said, do you?"
     
  8. Szkot Senior Member

    Edinburgh
    UK English
    'You're joking me' is certainly an idiom in Irish English, as in this newspaper headline: Players react with 'You're joking me' when game abandoned.
     
  9. GreenWhiteBlue

    GreenWhiteBlue Senior Member

    The City of New York
    USA - English
    Did you see that word "dated"? This means that the term is out of date, and no longer used in most forms of English today. Based on what Szkot said above, it is still a regional usage in Ireland -- but no doubt there are expressions used in (for example) Brittany or Alsace that are not generally used in standard French as spoken by most Francophones.

    I would eliminate that "on me" , and simply say "you have got be joking; you don't really think I believe what you have just said, do you?"
     
  10. dojibear

    dojibear Senior Member

    Fresno CA
    English - Northeast US
    That is incorrect in AE (American English). The verb "joke" cannot have the object "comrade".

    "Joke with" is fine. Words after "with" are not verb objects.

    That is wrong, but the phrase "to play a joke on me" is correct. It means to trick me. It's a different meaning of the noun "joke".
     
  11. Aimee J.

    Aimee J. Banned

    French - France
    I’m confused. Can an intransitive verb have a direct object after it in a sentence?

    Is the following sentence also incorrect:

    Are you joking with me?
     
  12. Hermione Golightly

    Hermione Golightly Senior Member

    London
    British English
    Maybe you're confused about direct and indirect objects, and prepositional phrases like 'on me'.
     
  13. Aimee J.

    Aimee J. Banned

    French - France
    Why is it acceptable to say “Are you kidding me?” But not “Are you joking me?”
     
  14. Florentia52

    Florentia52 Modwoman in the attic

    Wisconsin
    English - United States
    Because "kid" can be a transitive verb, while "joke," as discussed above, is generally not, at least in AE and BE.
     
  15. dojibear

    dojibear Senior Member

    Fresno CA
    English - Northeast US
    No. That is what "intransitive" means: it cannot have a direct object.
     
  16. entangledbank

    entangledbank Senior Member

    London
    English - South-East England
    <Threads have been merged at this point by moderator (Florentia52)>

    The difference is that they're different words. You have to learn the grammar of each word separately. The meaning doesn't tell you. You need to learn that 'kid' is transitive and 'joke' isn't. This is common in English. Another common example: 'give' and 'donate' mean the same thing but have different grammar.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2018
  17. Aimee J.

    Aimee J. Banned

    French - France
    Hi entangledbank,

    What exactly determines whether or not a verb can be a transitive verb or an intransitive verb?

    I know that many verbs can be either so what determines if can only be either transitive or intransitive?

    I think what is making me confused is that a lot of verbs can be either depending on the sentence.
     
  18. bennymix

    bennymix Senior Member

    Ontario, Canada. I grew up in US.
    English (American).
    If it is correct to put a noun phrase, noun or pronoun just after the verb--i.e. as its direct object--then you have a transitive verb.
    "I kidded my son about his haircut.":thumbsup:
    but not
    "I joked my son about his haircut.":cross:

    Where there is no such noun-ish object there, just after, *the verb is, right there, intransitive; though of course, if you can add as above, it would**in the new sentence** be a transitive verb.

    I crashed. [=I ran my car into a pole] Intransitive.
    I crashed on the highway on my way to work. Intransitive. {'highway' is not just after}
    I joked with my son about his haircut. Intransitive. {'my son' is not just after}

    I crashed my car into a pole. Transitive.
    I kidded my son until he left the room. Transitive

    **We leave aside the case of an intervening noun, etc. as an indirect object

    Red items are direct objects which thus show it was a transitive verb, before.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
  19. Aimee J.

    Aimee J. Banned

    French - France
    If someone has just said something in a sarcastic manner, is it correct to reply any of the following:

    Are you kidding?
    Are you kidding me?
    Are you joking?
    Are you joking with me?
     
  20. bennymix

    bennymix Senior Member

    Ontario, Canada. I grew up in US.
    English (American).
    All are correct. What would be wrong and sound like a learner, "Are you joking me?"
     
  21. Aimee J.

    Aimee J. Banned

    French - France
    Do transitive verbs not always require an object?

    Therefore, is saying "are you kidding?" not incorrect?

    What exactly is the difference between kidding and joking? I thought they both meant the same thing.
     
  22. entangledbank

    entangledbank Senior Member

    London
    English - South-East England
    They do mean the same thing. They have different grammar. That's the point: the meaning is not enough; you also have to know the grammar of each verb.
     
  23. Aimee J.

    Aimee J. Banned

    French - France
    How can I find out the grammar of each verb or any word for that matter?
     
  24. heypresto

    heypresto Senior Member

    South East England
    English - England
    A good dictionary, like our WR Dictionary, will tell you if a verb is transitive (vt) or intransitive (vi) and whether it can be both. It will often give you examples of usage too.
     
  25. PaulQ

    PaulQ Senior Member

    UK
    English - England
    No - sometimes an object can be assumed/implied or the verb used as an absolute.

    Unfortunately, there is not one type of "transitive verb." Transivity is a property that may or may not attach to a verb:

    "She put the meal on the table and he ate." -> He cannot eat without eating something, and so an object is implied.

    "We had a secret but John knows it - did you tell?" = did you tell the secret to John?

    The question now is "How do you understand "transitive"?" - Does it mean it must have a stated object - and what happens if the object must be implied?

    Consider

    A: "Do you have a dog?"
    B: "I have."
     
  26. Aimee J.

    Aimee J. Banned

    French - France
    Hi PaulQ,

    If the two verbs kidding and joking mean the same, why is one considered to be a transitive and the other an intransitive?

    I am going to say about the two examples you used (A and B) that A is one where the object must be mentioned because 'Do you have' makes no sense and that B is simply responding to a question e.g if someone says "who has a pen?" to just reply "I have." Is that right?

    Also, would a lot of people not say 'you got a' rather than just 'you a'?

    Am I right in saying that a verb is transitive if when used without an object it makes no sense?

    So for example, is the word 'bring' always transitive?

    A. Please bring. (incorrect).
    B. Please bring a coffee with you. (correct use of the transitive verb 'bring')
     
  27. PaulQ

    PaulQ Senior Member

    UK
    English - England
    In general,
    1. the subject of an intransitive verb is also the object of the verb, e.g. "He died."
    2. A transitive verb operates on the object only: "I answered the question."
    What does "I have" mean to you?
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
  28. dojibear

    dojibear Senior Member

    Fresno CA
    English - Northeast US
    They do not mean the same thing. Compare "kill" (transitive) and "die" (intransitive).

    "A kills B" means that A ends the life of B. A's life is not affected.
    "A kills" means that A ends the life of someone or something. A's life is not affected.
    "A dies" means the life of A ends.

    Those are not the same meaning. The verbs talk about the same subject (ending life) but do not mean the same.
     
  29. bennymix

    bennymix Senior Member

    Ontario, Canada. I grew up in US.
    English (American).
    It's in English and your language. Partir means quitter, often. But the grammar....
     
  30. Aimee J.

    Aimee J. Banned

    French - France
    If a teacher asks the class: "Does everyone have a pen? Is it not okay to just simply "I have."?

    entangledbank said that they do mean the same thing but have different grammar.

    Just like the example you have given between "kill" and "die", could you do the same with "kidding" and "joking" please?
     
  31. PaulQ

    PaulQ Senior Member

    UK
    English - England
    I am asking you what you think "I have" (as an answer to the question) means...
     
  32. Aimee J.

    Aimee J. Banned

    French - France
    The person who said "I have" has a dog.
     
  33. Aimee J.

    Aimee J. Banned

    French - France
    Am I correct in saying that both 'give' is always transitive and 'donate' can be both transitive or intransitive?

    Give:

    A. I'll give him a pen so he can fill the form in later. (transitive)

    Donate:

    A. I donated to a charity last week. (transitive)
    B. I donate at least once a year. (intransitive)

    Is that right?
     

Share This Page

Loading...