Armenian: Իր / Իւր

Beobachter

Member
English, USA
In the Armenian national anthem (third line of the first verse), some sources give the first word as Իր and others give Իւր. (The government website gives Իր; see http://www.president.am/information/arm/?task=52). In transliterations, some sources give "Ir" for this word and others give "Yoor."

1) Is it true that "Ir" and "Yoor" are the appropriate transliterations for Իր and Իւր, respectively?

2) For the initial vowel sounds, are the best IPA representations [i] and [iu] respectively?

3) Is the difference in these two words related to the Armenian spelling reform?

4) Is there any difference in meaning between the two words?
 
  • armatura

    New Member
    Eastern Armenian, Russian
    the original correct version is Իւր (in Modern Eastern Armenian - Յուր)

    1, 2, - yes
    3- not sure
    4 - there's a slight difference, but in English they have the same meaning - it's, it's own. You can feel the difference in Russian (Իր - его/ее, Իւր - своих).
     

    Whodunit

    Senior Member
    Deutschland ~ Deutsch/Sächsisch
    2) For the initial vowel sounds, are the best IPA representations [i] and [iu] respectively?
    According to what I've read about the Armenian letters, it should be [iɹ] (Իր) and [juɹ] (Իւր) in Classical Armenian, [iɾ] (Իր) and [juɾ] (Իւր) in Eastern Armenian.
    3) Is the difference in these two words related to the Armenian spelling reform?
    I'm not sure I understand your question. However, I can tell you that if you write 'yr' in English, you read it like [ir]. Adding a 'u' (= yur) makes the letter 'y' a semi-vowel: [jir]. Were you referring to the difference in pronunciation or meaning?

    As for the etymology, this should be of interest for you:

    Ւ, ւ: Usually it represents /v/ but there are some exceptions. In Classical Armenian աւ at the beginning of a word (if followed by a consonant) represents /au/ (like in down), f.e. աւր (awr, /auɹ/, day). (Due to a sound shift in the Middle Ages this pronunciation has changed to /oɹ/ and since the 13th century written as օր (ōr); the original monophthong ու [representing /ov/ or /ou/] became /u/; the monophthong իւ (iw) represents /ju/ [the spelling reform in Soviet Armenia replaced ի (i) with յ (y) and ւ (w) with ու (ow), forming the diphthong յու]). Wikipedia.
     

    Beobachter

    Member
    English, USA
    I'm not sure I understand your question.
    My question wasn't very clear, but I suppose I was wondering whether the reason that some sources gave Իր and others gave Իւր was perhaps due to the spelling reform. I guess that the answer to this is probably "No," since the words are actually different.

    I still wonder why the original text was changed (slightly) to use Իր in the official government version of the anthem.
     
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